EP 635: Understanding Your Genetics for Personalized Health with Natalie Sampson

Could your genetics hold clues to the chronic symptoms you’ve been struggling to understand?

In this episode of The Health Fix Podcast, Jannine Krause sits down with Natalie Sampson, genetic counselor and functional medicine practitioner at Golden Genetics, to explore how genetic testing can help us better understand our health, identify potential risks, and make more informed decisions about personalized care.

With so many direct-to-consumer DNA tests and genetic reports available, it’s easy to feel overwhelmed by conflicting information and recommendations. Natalie explains the difference between diagnostic genetics and functional genomics, why interpreting individual genes without considering the bigger picture can be misleading, and how genetics can work alongside symptoms, medical history, and conventional testing to guide care.

They also discuss why genetics may be worth exploring for people experiencing unexplained chronic symptoms, histamine issues, brain fog, fertility challenges, or health changes during perimenopause and menopause.

Rather than relying on a single gene or test result to determine what your body needs, this conversation highlights the value of working with qualified professionals who can interpret your results in context and help you make informed decisions about your health.

Key Takeaways

1. Your genes are only part of the picture.

Genetic results can provide useful information, but they need to be considered alongside your symptoms, lifestyle, family history, and other clinical findings.

2. More testing doesn’t automatically mean more answers.

A single genetic variant rarely tells the entire story. Looking at relevant genes together and interpreting them in context can help avoid misleading conclusions and unnecessary interventions.

3. Your symptoms matter.

How you feel and respond to treatment is an important part of understanding your health. Genetic information can add context, but it should not replace clinical evaluation or listening to your body.

4. Genetic testing can support more personalized care.

For some people, genetic counseling and testing may help clarify unexplained symptoms, medication responses, fertility challenges, or inherited health risks.

5. You don’t have to make every health decision based on your genetic results.

The goal of genetic counseling is to help you understand your options, ask better questions, and make informed decisions that fit your needs and circumstances.

About Natalie Sampson

Natalie Sampson, MS, CGC, IFNCP, works with Golden Genetics, helping individuals and healthcare providers understand genetic information and its potential role in personalized care. Her work brings together genetic counseling and functional genomics to help people explore inherited risks, chronic symptoms, fertility concerns, and individualized health strategies.

Connect with Golden Genetics

Learn more about genetic counseling, testing, and personalized care through Golden Genetics.

https://www.goldengeneticshealth.com

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Connect with Dr. Jannine Krause

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Podcast transcript

Jannine Krause (00:00.675)
Natalie Sampson, welcome to the Health Fix Podcast.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (00:03.768)
Thank you so much for having me.

Jannine Krause (00:06.181)
I know we’re gonna have a fun conversation just from our pre-record, but also because genetics is something that one, we all have, but two, it is something that we are so confused with all the noise out there on it, even as providers, and I’ll I’ll explain my story here in a second, but just it’s there’s too there’s there’s so much and too much and it’s confusing. And then we have now the ability to throw it into Chat GPT or Cloud or whoever you’re you’re vibing with.

And now you get a whole slew of things. And as a provider, I’ll have people bring me their genetic tests, what Claude or Chat GPT said, and then ask me, now what do I do? And I’m like, let’s back up a little bit hair. So that’s why you are here today. And also because one of the big conversations that I I want us to like dive into is how you got into this with dad’s cancer, because we’re forgetting that.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (00:49.186)
Yeah.

Jannine Krause (01:01.753)
You know, a lot of this is nice to have information and and interesting, but the stuff that really could creep on us and the little habits that could lead to some serious stuff, we’re overlooking like what really do we need to be paying attention to versus like, do I need vitamin D from the sun or from supplements? Or do I need methylfolate, hydroxylfolate, or hydroxy B twelve, adenosyl B twelve, and

whatnot. And if you guys are like, what in the heck is she talking about? Don’t worry. We’re gonna talk about it. So, Natalie, tell us tell us your story about dad and how you got into the genetic space.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (01:32.142)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (01:39.011)
Yes. Okay, so growing up, I was always the nerd that was obsessed with the micro world. you know, I was playing with the bugs while everyone was playing with Foursquare. Like I remember that memory so well. So as I got older, that translated to really wanting to understand the body in a micro way. And so when I was first exposed to genetics, I was actually so excited. I was I remember being so passionate about my

Jannine Krause (01:45.713)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (02:07.064)
genetics class that I wanted to cry. So I definitely felt like that was my my road, my passion. And so when I first went into genetics, I was so excited just to help people find answers and understand their body in that micro way. And I first started my career after graduating in oncology. So in the cancer realm in more of the in a traditional genetic counseling role.

So also just quick background for people who don’t know what a genetic counselor is or the degree. Most people don’t. I get that question all the time. it is a master’s degree in human genetics and psychology. And traditionally, many genetic counselors work in hospital settings or traditional healthcare settings. And so I started my career in in cancer in a hospital setting, and I loved what I was doing, but I started to feel this disconnect because

I was seeing my job was to see patients who were already diagnosed with cancer and then tell them if their cancer was because of genetics or had a genetic cause or increased risk. And then sometimes I would see patients in their or sometimes I would see their family members to tell them if their family members also inherited that genetic risk. And I started to feel this disconnect because in my head I knew that there was so much power with.

Cancer genetic testing and catching things early. And so at the same time when I started feeling this way, my dad was actually diagnosed with stage four cancer. And so my role switched from a provider to a patient’s daughter. And so I got to really experience what it was like as the patient. And not only did that solidify my desire to support patients and re and have that realization that.

Cancer genetic testing can save lives because of that idea that we can catch things early and be proactive. But I also started to see how little nutrition, lifestyle, supplementation, whole person care was in the conversation when a diagnos when a diagnosis happened, and for family members when we were talking about increased risk. And growing up, I was very, my family was.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (04:26.134)
Academic, they were in the academic world. My dad is actually a medical engineer, but because of my my brother was he’s neurodivergent and found a lot of care in the holistic world. So I grew up with a very integrative lens. I myself found relief by working with naturopaths only in my life. And so I started to feel really disconnected, not being able to address things from that whole person approach.

And so anyways, that is what led me to start my practice so that we can not only bring bring a proactive approach to genetic testing, but also bring a more functional, personalized approach, because that’s really where the the power of genetics lies.

Jannine Krause (05:11.845)
I I wish like even as a naturopath, I wish that I would have had someone that

understood the the connection between the two things because you know when I was at Bastier going to school learning to be a naturopath when my mom was in the final I would say final stages of her life with all the genetic testing that we we decided we had to do because really it wasn’t really there. I mean it was there but it was only in a research you know phase back in those days because I you know I’m talking twenty plus years ago right now and

When this happened, I saw a genetic counselor and literally she was like and and no no offense to University of Washington. I mean it it is a great school. It’s got great medical care in terms of like high-end stuff. But like this gal was just like, yep, this is this, this is this, this is this. All right, any questions? Bye. You know? And I was like, okay, okay. And and the good news is is I was boring. I there was nothing genetic there.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (06:02.072)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nahuble. Yeah.

Jannine Krause (06:13.605)
Thank goodness my mom does you know, did she pass, of course, and so did my aunt and both of them did have Brapa. but you know, other than that, I was completely clear and life went on. But I did have a cousin that was the daughter of my aunt who ended up passing and

Could she have had Broca? I don’t know. We don’t know. She was she didn’t have the testing done, you know, and it wasn’t offered to her. And and at that time, you know, it’s one of those wild things, you know, because they even posed it to me. It’s like, so there’s this experimental program and you know, and we’ll cover it for you. You know, here’s what we’re gonna do. And so it’s it’s wild, right? but so many people went through that. And and so it’s really cool that that here we are, fast forward, like no joke, we are probably twenty five, twenty four, twenty-five years from when I went into that.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (06:48.62)
yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (07:01.133)
Yeah.

Jannine Krause (07:02.227)
visit. so let’s talk a little bit about the difference between diagnostic and really impactful and and I’m not discrediting the regular genetics, right? Just the more impactful things on our life, like, you could have BRCA or her to new or something like that in terms of genetics for cancer for breast cancer, but you could also have different things going on for fertility.

So I’m gonna turn it over to you to talk about that because I think we’ve so much noise of the functional space of the DNA that we’re not talking about like real serious stuff that’s happening right now that you need to work on.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (07:28.538)
Yes.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (07:37.389)
Yeah.

Yes, this is my favorite question because it kind of ties into when people ask me if it’s nature versus nurture. And a lot of people think in black and white, they think, it’s it’s my my genetics, I’m doomed, or I have so much power over my genetics, you know, sometimes why would I even want to know? But the answer is actually that it’s nature and nurture and it depends on the gene and the the or the condition that we’re talking about.

So, in the world of genetics, I like to explain this concept called penetrance. You don’t have to know that word, but it basically translates into impact. And so some genes in our bodies are very impactful, and changes in those genes, we also call that variants or mutations in those genes, can cause the gene not to work as well and lead to either a high increased risk or a genetic condition.

So, for example, on the end of the spectrum, we have things like Huntington’s disease, cystic fibrosis, Down syndrome. Many people, you know, know these conditions. Those are genetic conditions. So, what that means is if someone’s born with those conditions, there’s not much we can do about it environmentally to alter that condition. Then we, as we go down the spectrum, we can talk about things like BROCA. So the BRCA genes, we know.

That their job in our bodies is to protect us against cancer. So if you have a mutation in one copy of one of those genes, you’re at a high increased risk. They’re not diagnostic, meaning you don’t 100% have cancer if you have that mutation that you’re born with, but you have a high increased risk. And then a lot of genes and gene changes in our body fall on the other side of the spectrum, where individually they play more of a minor impact. You might have a small increased risk towards something.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (09:30.028)
But they they’re not, as we say, high impact, and therefore, and on that side of the spectrum, there’s a lot we can do about it environmentally. So I’ll give an example: the inflammation genes. So the inflammation genes, you might have changes in the inflammation genetic pathway that can lead to a higher risk to have a high inflammatory response, but two people can have those same genetics.

One person eating the standard American diet, living a sedentary lifestyle, versus the other person’s eating Mediterranean diet, taking omega-3s, getting their activity in, or you know, whatever we think for anti-inflammatory, they’re going to express differently, which means someone might be super inflamed and someone might be less inflamed, even though they’re both prone to inflammation. But when we’re talking about a diagnosis that applies less. So that’s why we always want to assess what gene.

What condition, what are we actually talking about when we’re thinking nature and nurture? And and we we in our practice like to combine all the worlds. Cause if you’re at an increased risk for breast cancer, for example, we want to be proactive. We want to do things to catch things early that might involve screening, but we also want to be preventative and look at how we can utilize nutrition lifestyle and supplements to to work with prevention for cancer. And so that’s why it’s important to look at

Jannine Krause (10:30.916)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (10:56.534)
It look at all the worlds because if you don’t do the higher risk testing, you might be focused on the wrong things or missing out on opportunities that can be life saving. Okay.

Jannine Krause (11:08.879)
That makes perfect sense. That makes perfect sense. And and I feel like, you know, like I said earlier, we have this really big focus on the functional side of things. And that’s one of the things I always think about. I’m like, well, okay, yes, let’s see if you have MTHFR. And, you know, yes, as a naturopath, I get stuck in the space of like mold and chronic illness and trying to figure what in the world’s going on. But at the same time, I’m I’m always like, How do I choose? Because we’ve got gallery that’s the one test and gives you one answer. And then we’ve got, you know, i

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (11:34.285)
Yeah.

Jannine Krause (11:38.68)
bajillion others, right? Now we we even can go to like lab core and look at what are we looking at for risk for Alzheimer’s. What what kind of like when you when you say bringing it all together, are you using multiple companies to pull it all together? And and if you feel like sharing, tell us what, you know, kind of what you guys are up to so folks can kind of hear how this works. Cause it does seem kind of disjointed in terms of the two spaces.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (12:03.682)
Definitely. It is so disjointed, unfortunately. So there is no one test that works for everyone. And thinking about the reason behind that is because we have over 20,000 genes in our body. We have a gene that does everything. So a lot of people are surprised to learn that. We have genes that literally create our hormones. We have genes that create melatonin at night. We have genes that not so it’s not just about disease risk or develop.

We have genes for everything. And so there are big tests that exist now because of all the research we’ve done. Many people have starting to hear them called whole genome or whole exome sequencing. But what people don’t realize is that those tests, even if you run that, the lab can only report so much. So the lab that you choose will report either what you tell them or what the provider tells them to look for or

What the company decides is important. So you’re not getting all the genetic information back because that would lead to a 20,000-page report, which no one can possibly read. And so too much. And so we s we do, in our practice, we will run whole genome or whole exome tests on pediatric patients, for example, if there’s developmental delay, intellectual delay, autism, and we’re trying to find an answer, the lab will look for any genes that relate to that. But for the most part,

We’re picking the test and the genes that make sense for that person. And you know, that does involve working with many different companies. So when we work with a patient, we first do an initial session where we review personal and family history and we will go over what tests we think could be helpful for them. So for example, we might have a patient who comes to us, she might she’s, you know, there’s a question that she might have a connective tissue disorder.

She also, you know, we also do her family history. She actually has family history of cancer as well. But then she also is questioning things like inflammation or histamine or cholesterol. And so with that patient, we might talk about cancer, hereditary cancer testing for that proactive, more proactive preventative piece. We might do a diagnostic panel for connective tissue disorders, you know, vascular EDS, or for example, people have heard of EDS, but.

Jannine Krause (14:26.789)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (14:27.102)
you know, so we’ll potentially do a connective tissue disorder, and then we’ll also do a functional genomics panel to try to assess all the things. And so we do end up using different labs. So to answer your question in more detail about what labs we use. So when it comes to the medical diagnostic space, I do recommend working with a provider before ordering your own test, you know, for obvious implications, but also privacy, security, HIPAA, and all of that as well.

Jannine Krause (14:42.331)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (14:56.354)
But also to get expert interpretation. When it comes to more of the direct-to-consumer testing, we say, or functional genomics testing, there’s a million tests out there. So these are the things that we look at. Some of the things we look at, and I’m probably gonna forget some. But first, who founded the company? Was it anyone scientific? Second, do they have a board of scientific individuals, providers that’s helping them?

decide what genes are on the report and why and what they’re reporting. A lot of tests I’ll look at and it’s like a business, you know, no offense to some of these, but it’s like a businessman who started the test. There’s no one scientific looking that over. so, you know, those things, what are the genes included? So, you know, if someone’s like, I really want to learn more about my body, this test came up, you know, it’s a methylation test.

But maybe they’re also wanting to understand, you know, some of the other things we talked about, but there aren’t any genes on that report for cancer risk, for example, or you know, there’s no gene on that report for it’s not looking at connective tissues or you know, whatever. So looking at the genes and like if they make sense to you. and then privacy and security. So we always talk to the lab about what they do with the information because genetic testing, you know, used to be just in healthcare.

So it was HIPAA covered always, and now it’s not. And so some some companies unfortunately do sell data to outside companies. So asking about privacy, what they’re doing with your results, with your sample, who gets to see them. Also insurance, you know, we talk about that with patients. Like what’s, you know, we have laws that protect against insurance discrimination, but you just want to be aware of all of that. So those are some of the things we we think about when assessing a lab.

Jannine Krause (16:48.483)
Makes sense. Makes sense. Yeah, it’s you know

always a buyer beware and yeah, know the company, you know, got some info background. I think one of the things that comes up when when we talk about all of the information now available to us and being able to run it through Chat GPT or whatever. And then now you bring this slew of info, it’s almost overwhelming to a lot of us, myself included. And when like I mentioned when I was in in natural pest school, DNA testing was very in its infancy. We did not have all these companies. And so training on it for me

I knew different pathways that could go awry, but now it’s, you know, we have to almost go back and get a PhD just to learn the DNA sequencing. And I’m lucky enough to have a partner who in in my Wisconsin business where she likes, she just she loves it. Me, I have a love-hate relationship because it’s like you get all of these snips, and I’m sure a lot of people listening can can get this if they’ve had the DNA testing, where like, you do not have a high risk for cholesterol. Yes, you do. You do, you know.

And and almost every gene like negates the other one. What do you guys do about that? How do you prioritize? How do you figure this out?

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (18:00.94)
I know, and it can get so overwhelming so quickly. And, you know, and that’s why we also love working with, you know, providers and patients, because we want to be the genetics leg to really just focus on that and then pass that information. But okay, so to answer your question, the thing that AI also doesn’t have, nor does lab reporting systems, is the ability to really differentiate the impact of that gene.

Like I’ve actually plugged my own genetic testing into Chat GPT just to see like what because I’m like, we just gotta see what the patients are getting. And it’s so overwhelming. The ChatGPT will take every gene and look at research, and it’s like, but they’re not like there might be this study, but it’s like, okay, we’re what are we actually doing in the genetics world to hand like what are the guidelines on this gene and things like that. And that’s also why we get frustrated with a lot of genetic tests and their reports, because

The reporting will be like a hundred-page report with like a million research papers, and it’s not helpful whatsoever to the provider or patient. So it’s like the bane of our existence. so when we get genetic testing results, we have the background and knowledge to be able to differentiate between a high-risk gene and a lower risk gene, for example. also, we know and can weigh genes based on, so for example, like cholesterol, some genes are

much more impactful than other genes and SNPs are different than mutations. So basically there are should we get into that or a little deep? Okay.

Jannine Krause (19:34.361)
Yes, please. I’ve been thinking I’m think a lot of people ’cause I’ll be like, just send me your snips and like a like the they’re like, What? I’m like, never mind, just just send me the whole report. It’s fine. I’ll find it. I’ll find it.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (19:41.379)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay, let’s get into it. I think it’s actually a little bit easier to understand than than it sound. So SNPs stand for single nucleotide polymorphisms. Stay with me. When you are, let’s imagine you’re reading a book and you’re reading a sentence, you f you see a word, the word has a misspelling, or the word has a deleted letter, or a duplicated letter. That that sentence might get confusing and

you know, all of a sudden if your body’s trying to read that, that instruction can get confusing. So that is a s a SNP or a a single nucleotide polymorphism, a letter change. Summed a lot of times, diagnostic genetics, we’re looking at much many more changes beyond j just single letter changes. So imagine you’re reading that same sentence and all of a sudden a whole word is repeated, or a whole word is missing, or

You know, multiple letters are mixed up and not in the same place. So when we’re doing diagnostic testing, we look at the whole sentence because there could be lots of misspellings. Single nucleotide polymorphisms or SNP testing just looks at that one spot on that word and looks at what that letter could be. So that is getting back to high impact versus versus a little lower impact. So let’s say we have a cholesterol gene, I’ll give an example, CETP.

So if someone has a SNP, a letter change in CETP, that will be different than if someone has a mutation in a gene that leads to an inherit inherited cardiomyopathy, for example. So that’s going to express differently. The first world, you might be at l a little bit of increased risk for higher cholesterol, depending on your other SNPs. I always like to say that because we don’t want to look at them individually. What is your APOE? What is your other SNP genes here? But then

Jannine Krause (21:38.348)
Right.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (21:39.457)
If someone has an inherited cardiomyopathy, those have much more, I you know, I don’t like using the word extreme, but much more, much more recommendation or traditional recommendations that we might want to follow to be proactive as well. So instead of just changing our diet for lower cholesterol, it might also include things like, again, these are rarer conditions, but we see this with patients. It might be things like, you know, watching how much you get your heart rate up and

making sure you’re getting an EKG and things like that. So those worlds are different. So we have to differentiate what we’re looking at. And then therefore, then we can take the then we can take recommendations from there.

Jannine Krause (22:22.129)
Makes sense. And and thank you for that explanation. That was a great one. Like that’s so easy to understand. Yeah. A letter versus a set of words or a phrase. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s mind boggling, right? And I and I can watch people’s mind like I could just see their face glaze over when I’m like, never mind, we’ll just go. You know, and and for most people, like MTHFR, you know, it used to be like this elusive thing. Now we kind of understand that. But you know.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (22:25.984)
Okay. I didn’t wanna Yeah. Like stay with me, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (22:38.178)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jannine Krause (22:48.433)
Once once we start getting into like you said, C T P like when we start getting into like SODs and you know and guys you guys are gonna listen and be like, what is this? The military? all of these different ones like NOS and blah blah one of the things I find and is is we have a lot of genetic

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (22:58.909)
Yeah.

Jannine Krause (23:08.835)
information on detox and how the body detoxes. And this is another place where a lot of folks will hang up, myself included, because yes, we look at the weight of like how many of the big hitters are at play here. And then what I’ve personally found is like I almost have to run down a sequence of what is most impactful for this particular amount of genes to find out what freaking supplement’s gonna work and what like things going to work. Please, please help us understand this

Is that really what it’s like or is it just that like I need more training here? Like what is going on?

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (23:42.967)
I know. Yeah. Yeah. In the detox world too, there are so many genes, right? Like you said, for phase one, phase two. So and that’s why our company too, we really like to make sure we’re taking a whole person approach. So like looking at the patient’s whole picture, what symptoms are they experiencing right now? Because when we’re entering the functional world, we have to remember that epigenetics is something to consider. So epigenetics is

The study of how genes are expressing. So, like I mentioned before, let’s actually talk go back to the book analogy. So our body we are born with a genetic, we are born with our genetic code, and that code does not change. Meaning we have our book when we’re born, the spelling of the words in that book does not change throughout our life. But what does change is what is read. And so sometimes our bodies will highlight certain chapters.

Jannine Krause (24:19.558)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (24:40.204)
Sometimes our bodies will cross off certain chapters, put a sticky note in certain chapters. That is epigenetics. And that is really where the functional genomics world lies. Because again, if you have a diagnosis of something, we’re not turning that gene on or off. So this is we’re talking about the test the testing we’ve been mentioning now. And so with

That’s why we always say it’s so important to look at the whole picture because if someone is really predisposed to inflammation, but they’ve been living extremely an extremely anti-inflammatory life, their whole, you know, they might not have like a common inflammation symptoms. And so it’s important to put into context, and we talk about that with patients too. Like even though this says this, it looks like you’re actually being v very proactive.

So, you know, it it might not make sense to, you know, waste time and money, keep doing what you’re doing, but maybe something else is coming up. The patient has histamine problems, they’re we’re seeing histamine variants in their report. We might want to focus on that because their symptoms are currently experiencing and keep inflammation in mind as they get older, perimenopause, all the things to lower inflammation. But so anyways, that being in context, so back to detox, that’s kind of how we we view it too. We obviously want to take it in context, but then also

That is similar to the way we basically the way we we view it is we look at kind of a weighted score. So if someone has many detox variants, meaning many changes in the detox genes, then that might get a higher score. And that means that we want to pay more attention to it. If someone has like one or two detox genes, unless they’re very, very impactful.

Jannine Krause (26:03.248)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (26:21.758)
we usually actually say that their detox is working pretty well. And then from that weighted score, we will then look at, okay, is it phase one or phase two that needs more support or is it both? And that’s kind of how we interpret it. Hopefully that would help.

Jannine Krause (26:34.597)
Gotcha. Gotcha. It makes sense. I mean, there’s somewhat of an algorithm, right, that that you kind of go through. And I’ve seen that, you know, in a couple of trainings I’ve been to and different things. And yeah, it’s it’s it sounds like, you know, it’s it’s a little bit of trial and error. and and that’s something I really want folks to know because I think a lot of folks, maybe ’cause it’s the marketing, they’re like, you’re gonna be able to target exactly what I need.

And we’re not gonna be like testing things out. And it’s like, mm, not exactly.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (27:07.102)
Yeah. And that’s why we like to make sure we’re looking at a lot of genes because in that space. Because sometimes people will come to us and for example, they might have a gut like l like F U T two. They might see that they have a gene that they need, you know, gut health support and they just looked at like a gut health genetic test. And then all of a sudden they’re taking all these probiotics and it’s making it worse. But it’s like when we do full genetic testing.

Then we see again, like let’s just use a histamine example. They are prone to having high histamine, so all those probiotics are not helpful. So that’s why it’s like we wanna, in our world, we try to take the most holistic picture we can from genetics and then work with providers to be like, what has the blood test, what have the bless blood tests been showing, what have the symptoms, you know, been showing? We we do also fully believe that the best data is.

the patient listening to their body and telling us how they’re feeling and what’s going on, you know. So it’s like, you know, this and we do pharmacogenomics as well, which is the study of how our DNA responds to medications. So sometimes this patient, you know, might come to us like this medication is not working for me. And we’re like, definitely listen to your body.

Jannine Krause (28:15.035)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (28:22.456)
But then doing genetic testing, it’s like, okay, yes, like we can see you’re processing it that differently. So that’s why it’s like, can we take a holistic view in all the in all the ways? We don’t want just and that is something why we don’t love like direct-to-consumer genetic tests that say we will give you five or six supplements that are fully aligned with your body. And and that’s why we don’t, you know, we don’t do that. We don’t have our own products. We don’t partner, we don’t partner with specific supplement labs because we really believe that.

supplements you have to take like a very holistic view.

Jannine Krause (28:55.397)
Yeah, no, it’s a a hundred percent. It’s a hundred percent true. I mean, in my experience that’s kinda how it looks too. There isn’t and and that’s my cringe on a lot of the companies. Yeah, they’re like, We’ll show exactly what’s wrong. We’re gonna give you five supplements and you’re gonna be so much better. And then they’re in my office going, like, I did that and now I’m not better. I’m worse. Histamines, whoo, for sure. For sure a problem.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (29:11.168)
Yeah, exact. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jannine Krause (29:16.973)
Let’s talk about women over 40 going through perimenopause, menopause, and beyond, because this is one of the phases when I see a lot of things start to show up because of hormone decline, because of, you know, just shifts in the body in general. And one of the biggest ones, of course, people are gonna come with me with the diagnostic side of like, hey, you know, if I’m gonna use hormone replacement therapy, I wanna be a hundred percent sure that I don’t have genetics for breast cancer. And then, you know, of course we always have the caveat of like, well, it doesn’t

guarantee, but there’s that. But then I always gotta say that disclaimer, but then there’s also like this realm and this is a space kind of where I live in right now in in my personal practice in i here in Wisconsin is that I have a lot of people with tissue issues. And

we look at cytokines, we look at the different things going on. And I’ve got the advise test that I use to like hone in on the different, you know, things going on with antibodies. What kind of things do you guys look at for more of the issue, tissue issues and issues over 40? What’s what’s your go-to? What can you recommend to folks? Kind of what’s your proto in approach to to identifying what’s going on?

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (30:21.262)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (30:27.616)
Yes. And we actually love working with patients at this age because it’s like a perfect age to hit so many different areas of genetics that can be really helpful for them. So I actually talk about optimizing the four Ps. So the four Ps of genetics, or actually how you optimize four Ps through genetics.

So the four Ps are personalization. So how can we personalize your health? Which becomes essential, especially for women and women going through perimenopause or any, you know, major transition. One size fits all care often doesn’t work, which we’ve been doing for women for so long. and the second P is proactive. So proactive again, not only do symptoms start coming up, but diseases that someone might be prone to start coming up.

So it is a perfect time to to look and see can we be proactive about anything? And again, we want to be personalized with that proactive care. We have patients that come to us saying, like, I want to be proactive against breast cancer because my friend, you know, had breast cancer. But when we do the whole workup, like they don’t have a risk for breast cancer. And it might make more sense to focus on cholesterol or heart disease for them. So proactive, per s preventative, so similar thing, like identifying that being preventative.

And the last P is precise. So precise is more modern, more traditional medicine. I like to say like the pharmacogenomics type of testing. you know, if someone has a diagnosis of cancer, there are genetic tests you can do to personal pr be precise with that treatment. but, anyways, the four Ps are amazing for a woman going through this transition for many reasons. So talking about personalized, which I think answers answers your question better, oftentimes

looking at pathways that relate to inflammation, histamine, glucose and insulin, cholesterol. Also, we even look at genes, and you know, again, this is we we find helpful, but it’s again not the only genes, but we look at genes that relate to how you build muscle. So this can be helpful for women going through that transition because and I’m you know collagen and joints, but because

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (32:44.532)
If you know, we always hear like women should weightlift, helps their bone strength, which we fully agree. And some women are more prone genetically to produce slow twitch muscles versus fast twitch muscles. So it might be really hard for a slow twitch muscle producer to all of a sudden start weightlifting. And so that is why we we take all of that into account, but it also helps prioritize for those women and helps us understand maybe why certain symptoms are coming up more than others.

Jannine Krause (33:01.573)
Right.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (33:13.034)
So for example, if a woman is all of a sudden pre-diabetic, you know, how can we help focus on those genes versus just like, you know, maybe standard and that’s what we’re getting personalized.

Jannine Krause (33:25.537)
Okay, okay. So of course being the the provider that I am going okay so obviously we have lots of choices with with looking at all of those different things and then figuring out like okay how do we most interact with these genetics? What does it look like for someone to come to you and and have

a whole like perimenopause preventative type of of testing done. Like obviously you’re looking at what they’re dealing with in that moment and family history as well. Might they have like the diagnostics over here if there’s some cancer in the family and then they would have the the functional and and like

How many markers like and I know this is really hard to guys, I’m I’m pushing it here. But like on average, how many markers do we really need to know and how much like would personalized look at it and precision look at it versus like what you’re getting with some of the slo out on the market? That’s a tough one.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (34:17.283)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (34:31.488)
Yes, I know. Yeah, no, that’s okay. So when it comes to the more like high-risk diagnostic testing, actually those panels are smaller. And the reason is because having

Genetic mutations in those are more rare and they’re very specific black and white genes. The functional genomic space, we look at more markers because of that idea of wanting to be holistic and not missing something when we’re recommending something. So, like you said, for example, let’s say a woman comes to us, that’s why we always do a pretest. We don’t order the same test on everyone, because as you can see, there’s many options and it can be complex pretty quickly. So we might order

Jannine Krause (35:09.253)
Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (35:15.16)
three to four tests or we might order one to two. It really depends on the patient. Sometimes we just order one after we review personal and family history. But then when we get results back, and we are a virtual company, so we send them off to the the house. They complete them on their own. When we get results back, we basically take our brains and create a protocol that makes most sense based on all the information we get. Sometimes, oftentimes it’s

not helpful to look at every single thing that we found. We say because this is a one-time test, we do think that having that information is helpful somewhere. So we will put information about that, but we basically will prioritize with the patient based on symptoms, based on what they’re experiencing, family history, what to prioritize with nutrition, supplements, lifestyle, and any modern medicine or traditional medicine recommendations.

And then we pass that information on to their provider as well so that everyone’s in the same loop. But we we try to avoid giving a 10-page recommendation report. if the patient wants to make sure they have recommendations to visit later and not prioritize, we will make sure that’s in there. But we always make it so it’s like this is top priority based on what we found.

Jannine Krause (36:24.57)
Yeah.

Jannine Krause (36:38.853)
That’s huge. Cause I mean, I’ve as a provider have had people come to me and they were given a hundred page report by a provider who does the DNA kind of that’s their focus. And then they’re also given twenty five supplements and I’m like

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (36:55.662)
Yeah.

Jannine Krause (36:55.931)
What’s what’s going on here? Like how is the buddy even gonna be able to deal with that? Like you’re you’re going in so many different directions. And one of the biggest places that I see this happen in is back to the inflammatory space and the mystery illnesses and you know

I would say probably one of the most common is more like the lupuses and like EDS, so Ailers Danlos, these kind of of, you know, mixed connective tissue disorder. Can you jump into the non-functional space to the diagnostic space for a minute? And and kind of give like let’s let’s give you a a a patient. Let’s give you a fifty-two-year-old woman. She’s got a lot of joint pain. We ran an autoimmune test on her and she’s got lupus, and it’s not a huge

ANA, but she’s got all the symptoms in the tissues. That’s it, just in the tissues. What would you be thinking diagnostically? Like, where would you go in that space? So folks can kind of have a little bit of an idea because I don’t know about you, and I would love to also secondary layer to this question. I’m testing you today. secondary question layer is like, are you seeing more of this? Because I’m seeing a heck of a lot of it. And I’m like, hmm.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (38:03.21)
Yes.

Yeah. To answer your second question, same with us. Absolutely. We’re seeing way more of it. I don’t I I we are trying to even understand why. you know, we looked into we our team was trying to look into research and see if COVID had anything to do with, you know, collagen and issues we’re seeing with autoimmunity and MCAS and all these things coming up. But I I don’t know if we have an answer to that.

But we do see it so much. We see this type of patient all the time in our practice too. So when it comes to connective tissue disorder diagnostic testing, there are many connective tissue disorders. Ellers-Dandler syndrome is a more common hypermobile Ellers-Dandler syndrome is a common connective tissue disorder. It also was all over the internet. So a lot of people have heard of that one. But there are so many connective tissue disorders that can also impact the connective tissue.

So, and the thing about the connective tissues is hypermobile EDS, unfortunately, we do not have one black and white gene that gives you a diagnosis of that gene. Actually, exciting research, we just found out two days ago that they may have d identified a gene, which is so exciting. we don’t have enough research right now to actually test for it yet, but we’re we’re watching that with eagle eyes. but

Jannine Krause (39:20.08)
Very

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (39:27.458)
They do think that other genes play a role in it as well. So it’s kind of multifactorial, meaning many genes might be involved. But other connective tissue disorders are black and white diagnostics. So, for example, a certain type of Ellers-Danlos syndrome, like vascular, there is c other connective tissue disorders like Marfan syndrome, Lois-Dietz syndrome. And so when people have connective tissue disorder symptoms, it can be helpful to

run that diagnostic test on them to rule out or in the other conditions. Like for example, we’ve we had a patient who actually test positive for Lowy’s Deeds syndrome, which is different than Ellers Danler syndrome, and therefore she now had personalized, a personalized plan on how to treat it. She went her whole life not knowing. So it’s so helpful. but then the autoimmune type stuff. So we th we know in research there’s a link between connective tissue disorders and autoimmune and histamine and all the things. And

Jannine Krause (40:13.457)
Yeah.

Jannine Krause (40:22.993)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (40:25.174)
We believe that’s for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is the connective tissue holds a lot of cells that when activated can cause flares. So for example, mast cells lie in connective tissue. So if you’re born with a connective tissue disorder, your connective tissue is not working as well. It can trigger these mast cells constantly and lead to to histamine intolerance or or MCAS. so anyways.

They’re they’re very much linked, but not always. Sometimes people have an autoimmune condition that is then impacting their connective tissue. And maybe there is some more s there are SNPs in connective tissue or c genes, but it’s not a diagnosis. So that’s something we think about too. But if that patient came to us, we would probably run a connective tissue disorder depending on full symptoms, a panel just to rule that out depending on

Symptoms and also if that patient wants that. But then also run tests that look at things like relating to autoimmunity. there are two panels. There’s autoimmune panels that look at their more high-risk genes. And then there are is that functional test that I think is helpful for everyone who has symptoms that are oftentimes expressed in autoimmunity. So for example, inflammation, histamine, a lot of the things we’ve been talking about.

Jannine Krause (41:50.448)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s and and I I’m love that you mentioned all those because it’s just something that I think a lot of people will think I have tissue issues and and and we go back to like tendon ligament and then you know the answer now is always estrogen is for everything. and then then we have people that don’t tolerate estrogen and don’t tolerate progesterone and that’s a whole nother genetic ROM and I’m sure you’ve you’ve had that too where you went down those rabbit holes.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (42:04.195)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (42:14.572)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so that again, like, you know, such an example of why we need people with your training and and people like and our you know, our practice taking like a holistic approach because of course hormones can impact the collagen collagen and joints. But like what else is happening? If there’s a connective tissue disorder, it’s the answer is not just hormones, but you know, hormones can be helpful for a woman. But yes, like you said, we we test for genes that relate to

response with hormones, how hormones are processed in the body. Of course, I think it’s helpful to just look at hormone-driven cancer risk, even though of course, like you said, disclaimer about that. But it’s just helpful to know like what’s going on with their hormones in the first place before because you know it’s like even in the functional space, our, you know, an our goal is really not root cause medicine, right? So it’s like avoiding the band-aid stuff and figuring out the deeper thing before we try things.

Jannine Krause (43:08.635)
Yeah. The high the high end stuff. And not only that, I mean, I’ll fully say that like even though we’ve kind of cleared the whole cancer connection thing, I’m sorry, we still have estrogen and progesterone positive cancer. So we do need to we still need to look at these things. We can’t keep ignoring it. But you know, neither here nor there. I’m super curious. What is what is the most interesting genetic?

diagnosis you’ve worked with. I’m fascinated by all this stuff. Like so give give us give us some of your like what’s the most interesting one to you for that’s you’ve went through or a couple.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (43:39.84)
Okay.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (43:46.263)
Okay. Okay. They’re gonna be probably more rare. Okay, so we had a patient who came to us, who had a child with a lot of different congenital anomalies, meaning like a lot of different birth defects, and she was also diagnosed with autism. Sh the this is a very like diagnostic case, of course. but the child came to us,

Jannine Krause (44:06.553)
Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (44:10.614)
I want to say she was 13. Her mom was, you know, of course, her her legal guardian and taking most of the appointment. But they hadn’t found answers their whole life. And she had come to us experiencing headaches and migraines. And also there would be times when she would seemingly like zone out and have issues with

Like communication in that way. And the doctor, she’s seen, you know, every specialist in the traditional realm. We ended up running a whole exone on her, which means we tested a huge panel for her. We ended up finding that she had a very, very rare genetic disorder that actually causes all the things she was experiencing and also causes seizures.

And so we identified that she when she was zoning out and having headaches and migraines, she was having seizures. And no one put that together because of course, you know, she had a diagnosis of autism that can get confusing with assessing communication and and that I I think that case just stood out to me a lot because the the mom you know, felt like she finally had an answer. She felt like it was her fault this whole time and no one had ever, you know, given them that answer. So, you know, that’s I think

a really interesting case. I can say one more too. We have so many in genetics, so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jannine Krause (45:29.185)
Yeah. I I have no doubt. That’s why I was like, I gotta ask you, just cause I’m a nerd at heart and I’m like, tell us more. And who knows who’s listening, right? They you know, someone here might have someone that knows someone that this could be incredibly helpful.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (45:41.837)
Yeah. Yeah, I think genetic testing is very underutil underutilized when it comes to pediatrics. So just know we can help with that too. another case is we had a patient, this is an extreme case, but we had a patient who the the child was born or this was, you know, like probably 20 years ago. So they didn’t understand that the child was born with broken bones. No one really figured this out, but the child

They did figure out that the child was having broken bones as the child was growing. And what happened was no one was doing genetic testing. So the child actually got put into a foster home because they thought that the parents were abusing the child. And years later, we saw this patient, obviously, years and years later, this patient had a genetic condition that led to fragile bones. And so

This whole time this patient had this genetic condition and you know, no one doing the genetic test, no answers were coming up. They were living their whole life like underst not understanding why they were doing, you know, why they couldn’t even live a normal life, trying to take vitamin D and all the things. And so, anyways, those are those are cases where we see, you know, in genetics that are we get those and we’re like, it’s like so crazy that we couldn’t see them earlier. But, you know, you never know.

Jannine Krause (46:45.073)
Right.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (47:07.276)
what you’re what you’re gonna uncover. So that’s why we always are like, you know, so I mean we’re obviously biased, but we wish, you know, it was more part of the norm. But those are two examples.

Jannine Krause (47:20.113)
Wow. You know, it’s it’s impressive. And and and back in the day, you know, my one of my first gigs as an acupuncturist and naturopath was working for a fertility clinic. And we had a lot of folks that would come in with their genetics.

from mom and dad genetics back then. And I mean we’re talking now twenty years ago and it’s so different and and so, you know, evolved. Do you work with a lot of couples and and how t tell us a little bit more about that space because I know that this podcast isn’t necessarily geared towards fertility, but I know that a lot of people have family members, children, whatever that are looking to conceive and having troubles.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (47:58.615)
Yes, yeah, we absolutely work with patients for fertility. I actually we have a free webinar that maybe I can send you to just in case some you know people want to watch. We just recorded it because it’s so helpful to have this information. I’ll give another case to to actually explain why this can be so helpful. We had a couple who came to us, I want to say like five to six years into their fertility journey, could not find answers. We ended up doing genetic testing and figured out that.

The partner, the male partner, had male infertility. He had a genetic variant that caused male infertility. And, you know, of course, that can be hard, but they were actually able to figure out and use technology to use I IVF, and now they have two healthy babies. And they were like, my gosh, the amount of time, the amount of money, the amount of mental strain we could have saved in the last five years. so

When we’re doing fertility testing, also I like to say, I I like I just like I’m very talk I’m talking about this very openly. I’m actually pregnant right now. And so I run all of these tests on myself, which was very helpful for me. So, anyways, I like to explain fertility testing as there’s many components. So there’s carrier screening. People have heard of carrier screening oftentimes, which is you might you and your partner might be a carrier of something, meaning you’re not impacted yourself.

Jannine Krause (49:04.281)
Mm.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (49:23.32)
But because we have two copies of each gene, if you’re a carrier something and you pass down that non-working copy, your child might have a recessive condition. But sometimes that can lead to infertility. So we w might run carrier screening. We might run a test called karyotyping, which is a test that looks at your chromosome parents’ chromosomes. These are like very complex words, but it’s just another way to look at if you might not be impacted, but when you and your partner, you know, egg and sperm meet, it it’s

creating infertility. and and then we might look at functional genomics and hormones and all of that, you know, put in context. But it can be so it can be such a missing link in in fertility journeys to do genetics and have someone who really knows what they’re talking about. Like in the fertility world, you need to go to a provider who knows the genetics behind it ’cause it’s very complex. And, you know, MTHFR is not gonna tell us everything we need to know when it comes to fertility, you know, or things like that. So

Just putting that out there too, like work with an expert with that.

Jannine Krause (50:26.097)
I’m glad you mentioned that. Cause I mean, that’s really all we had to work with 20 years ago. Was like T H F R, yes, no, okay. And that’s, you know. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it’s so expansive. And and you know, of course, I think for a lot of people, you know, it depends on on what someone’s interested in, if they want to try naturally first, see what you know, and and not dive right to the genetics, of course. But after we’re getting into five, six years.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (50:29.592)
Yeah, I know. Yeah. And that’s all the answers we got. Yeah. Totally.

Jannine Krause (50:52.645)
you know, that’s definitely time time to look at genetics and and yeah, if you’re up for it doing it early, yeah, why not? what other cases as as we round out this conversation, what other cases would you say, hey, get just do the genetics? Like if you, you know, have any ones or stories or things you can think about just for the folks who are listening that are most likely gonna be over forty thinking about general health and and

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (50:53.546)
Exactly. Yeah.

Jannine Krause (51:20.195)
you know, wellness and longevity, what would you say?

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (51:22.37)
Yeah. Yeah, I would say any woman who’s experiencing some type of chronic symptom that they haven’t found answers for. I think as women, we get told our whole lives that like things are just normal. Things like pain comes up for us and it’s part of our cycle, or it’s part of pregnancy, or it’s part of perimenopause. But that’s not true. There’s so much you can do and being personalized with it can help so much. So if anyone’s experiencing like chronic pain.

brain fog, you know, and they’re quote doing everything right or they have the basics down, you know, I think genetics can be like a really helpful we have a lot of patients who come to us with that and and find that it’s very helpful. And I would say also any patient who is, you know, interested in or just talking and thinking more about their family history, I think at at, you know, this age and like, you know, during that time, women can feel

or start to see diseases maybe crop up in their parents. And so it can be helpful to, you know, just have the conversation. Like you said, our job as genetic counselors at Golden Genetics is never convincing anyone of testing. Our job is education and helping you be informed and make the best decision that makes sense for you. So if you end up not wanting to test for disease risk, that’s also something that’s totally okay. It’s really just allowing us to have that conversation so we can explore that.

So proactive testing if there’s family history of certain things like cancer or dementia or heart disease, especially at earlier ages, under sixty, and you know, in f in their fifties or forties even, in the family history. and also, there was one more I was gonna say. It’s I’m losing it, it’s because of the pregnancy ring that everyone told me about. But yeah, so I would say like proactive care and then getting personalized if you’re experiencing like the chronic

the other thing I was gonna say is the reverse end is we actually do see a lot of patients who were adopted and don’t know anything about their family history. And so we see those patients too just to help them understand themselves more and, you know, personalize and be proactive again with their healthcare.

Jannine Krause (53:27.238)
Yeah.

Jannine Krause (53:38.482)
That’s so huge and something definitely to think about. Cause yeah, I will I will run into, you know, folks are dropped and have no, you know, there’s nothing or they’re you know, in the forty plus, you know, range and they’re starting to realize, well, I’ve I don’t have anyone I can ask and I’m getting older and now what? So yeah. So so huge. Well, we better tell folks about golden genetics and we better tell folks a little bit more in terms of how they can get in touch with you and all the details going forward.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (53:55.298)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (54:06.488)
Yeah. thank you so much. So we always recommend booking a complimentary logistics call with our team, which you can book on our website. The reason is because everything we do is personalized. And that includes packages and appointments. So we don’t put everyone through the same tests, we don’t put everyone through the same type of support. And so you can book a call with us if you’re interested in working with us or contact me. I know this stuff is complex, so I’m

I welcome any questions on our website at www.goldengeneticshealth.com. You can also connect with me personally on my Instagram, genetics with Natalie.

Jannine Krause (54:46.243)
Nice. Yes, Instagram’s always fun. You never know what kind of questions you’re gonna get. And like I’m I’m impressed by some of the wild things that that people are experiencing out there without any answers. So this is this is the space to go when I think all of the other options have been explored and maybe I should say it might be the place we should go first. But

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (54:54.486)
Yeah.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (55:06.018)
No. Yes. We do say genes first, but we are biased, so we say genes first.

Jannine Krause (55:07.814)
Here we are.

Jannine Krause (55:13.597)
Makes sense. Makes sense. I mean it’s now that we have the technology. And I think a lot of older docs like me who have been in the game a while, I I think we’re now starting to realize like, okay, this is something that that it’s been around a long enough. We have, you know, the know how. it’s just finding the right folks to do the interpretation if you haven’t had the experience and making sure that if you need to segment it out for someone that has a little more specialty than you do. So

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (55:40.78)
Yeah, I agree.

Jannine Krause (55:42.026)
my goodness. Well thank you, Natalie, so much for coming on and sharing all about Golden Genetics and all the genetics experience you have. And look forward to putting this one out.

Natalie Samson, MS, CGC, IFNCP (55:51.359)
mi too. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Jannine Krause (55:54.31)
My pleasure.