In this episode of the Health Fix Podcast, Dr. Jannine Krause sits down with Dr. Jono Taves, a specialist in headache and migraine care, to break down why headaches are rarely “just in your head.”
Dr. Taves explains how neck mechanics, airway health, breathing patterns, and daily lifestyle choices play a critical role in headache frequency and severity. This conversation dives into often-overlooked root causes like tongue ties, mouth breathing, and lack of movement and why treating headaches requires a personalized, whole-body approach.
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🧠 What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- Why neck dysfunction is one of the most common contributors to headaches and migraines
- The three essentials Dr. Taves looks for when addressing chronic headaches
- How tongue ties and airway restriction can create tension patterns that trigger head pain
- The surprising link between mouth breathing, neck tension, and migraines
- Why movement is medicine for neck health and headache prevention
- How sleep, diet, and lifestyle habits influence headache patterns
- Simple breathing techniques that may reduce headache symptoms
- Why headache treatment must be individualized, not one-size-fits-all
- How altitude changes can worsen headaches for some people
🔑 Key Takeaways
✔ Headaches are often mechanical, not just neurological
✔ The neck and airway are critical pieces of the headache puzzle
✔ Poor breathing patterns can reinforce chronic tension and pain
✔ Consistent movement supports long-term headache relief
✔ Lifestyle choices matter just as much as hands-on treatment
Resources From The Show:
- Dr. Jono Taves Website – https://www.noveraheadachecenter.com/
- Dr. Jono Taves Podcast – The Headache Doctor Podcast
👍 If this episode helped you, don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share it with someone who struggles with headaches.
🎙️ New Health Fix Podcast episodes drop weekly—stay tuned!
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Podcast Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Headaches and Migraines
02:49 Understanding Neck Issues and Their Impact
06:08 The Three Essentials for Headache Relief
08:57 The Role of Tongue Ties and Airway Issues
11:47 Addressing Jaw Tension and Clenching
15:00 Breathing Techniques and Their Importance
17:55 Movement and Neck Mobility
21:09 The Impact of Lifestyle on Headaches
24:01 Treatment Approaches and Patient Care
27:02 Altitude Effects on Headaches
29:57 Conclusion and Resources
Jannine Krause (00:01.698)
Dr. Jono Taves, welcome to the Health Fix Podcast.
Dr. Jono Taves (00:05.718)
Yeah, it’s good to be here. Thanks for having me on the podcast.
Jannine Krause (00:09.112)
hey, no problem, now that I know that you’re in Colorado, I’m like, well, shoot, I’ve got a lot of folks out there that I would love to send your way. And definitely when it comes to headaches, and we could talk the whole concept going along the lines of altitude and travel and things of that nature, that’s probably a whole nother division. But when it comes to migraines and headaches, and looking at that as a practitioner, being a naturopathic doctor myself, it’s one of the biggest things that can be incredibly
frustrating when you’re kind of going through all the lifestyle things, all the health things and trying to figure out what the heck is going on. So give us a little scoop as to why did you decide to choose headaches as your main focus? What was going on?
Dr. Jono Taves (00:54.55)
Yeah, a little bit of my background. So I went to school at the Mayo Clinic and the Mayo Clinic, you know, it’s been tagged the WFMC, right? Like the world famous Mayo Clinic. It’s got, yeah, basically some of the best and brightest minds within medicine. And it was a privilege to be able to train there. I would say that it was a good foundation. The thing that launched me into headaches and migraines was really
a few mentors that I had early on and they essentially instructed me on what it looks like to take care of someone’s neck, jaw and shoulders and specifically the upper part of the neck. And so what’s unique about the upper part of the neck is one, it’s really mobile, but two is that it refers pain into the head and the face. And so early on within the first year of practice, I was treating the neck and mainly headaches and then
I would have migraine patients come on my schedule. And I remember the first one that had seen multiple neurologists and, you know, clinically diagnosed as a migraine and she had a neck issue and she knew that she had a neck issue. And so at first I was like, wow, this, this migraine thing, I’m not really sure if that’s something that I can treat. But I worked on her neck and her migraines essentially went away. And I, that just kept happening. So the first couple of dozen people, it was like,
man, they’re migraine symptoms, like clinically diagnosed migraines went away. And so it was like, well, what’s going on here? And so I dove into trying to understand what our healthcare system was doing with these patients and why this problem was being overlooked. Cause again, I was like one year out of school and you know, still intimidated by the healthcare system and thinking like, these neurologists probably know way better. And so long story short, realized that there was a lot of symptom management.
and less objective findings, things that were wrong that needed to be corrected. And because of that model, was mainly, that was largely symptom management. These people just weren’t finding relief. And so finding something mechanical that can provide a reasonable explanation for these symptoms was really eye-opening. And then it was like, okay, from here, I just need to lean into this and open up a practice that just does.
Dr. Jono Taves (03:17.313)
for headache and migraine patients because they feel like they’ve tried everything and nothing’s worked and I want to build confidence with them so that we can help them.
Jannine Krause (03:26.062)
It makes sense, it makes sense because I’ve definitely in my practice had folks that we, you know, we’ve tried all the diet lifestyle stuff, they’ve seen all the neurologists, they have the Sumatriptans and you know,
would try different neck, jaw, head, feet, you know, I mean, it gets interesting as to like the different areas. But, you know, at the end of the day, sometimes I am left with, okay, I’ve tried all my things. I don’t know what else to do. So having someone like you in my back pocket would be like, amazing. So give us a little bit more detail on like this neck issue. Where is it coming from? What’s happening? What kind of other things could be going on with these folks?
Dr. Jono Taves (04:03.617)
Right. Right.
Dr. Jono Taves (04:08.576)
Yeah.
Dr. Jono Taves (04:17.279)
Yeah. So early on when I started, it was very much like, okay, this is a neck problem and we just need to solve the neck problem. And we’re still very much there. mean, the bulk of what we do is we restore mobility to the neck. And, so I’ll, I’ll zoom out and then I’ll zoom back in. So we’ve been in business seven years and I have my own podcast called the headache doctor podcast. And on that podcast, I’ve interviewed lots of different providers and practitioners.
local from around the country as well. And what I’ve done is I’ve distilled down, like what are the things, because there’s lots of practitioners, yourself included, that are not doing what I do and they’re helping people with migraines, right? So whether that’s diet-related, acupuncture, maybe it’s a sleep specialist. And so one thing I had to do is try to understand like, how are all these things helpful to these individuals that have the same symptoms?
but they’re not necessarily doing what I do. And so what we’ve done is we’ve come up with a model that has three spokes to it. So essentially there’s three essentials for anyone with a headache or a migraine, and they need to cover each of these three essentials in order to find like true long-term healing. Okay. So I’ll go over the three and then I’ll kind of go into
The idea is that pain doesn’t just manifest from nowhere. Our healthcare system would like to think that migraines are just a spontaneous neurological event. We don’t hold that stance here at Novera. So pain has to come from somewhere. There has to be some tissue irritated, inflammation, something that is actually sending a pain signal. And so that’s the first essential component. Understand, and typically it’s going to be neck, jaw, shoulders.
And these areas can refer pain into the head. It gets all into the nitty gritty with like the trigeminal nerve and the pathways that pain travels on through the brainstem. But just trust that if you have a neck issue, specifically the upper neck, then that can easily be interpreted as coming from the head or the face. And we need to understand that to get to the source of the pain. Okay. So that’s the first essential. The second essential is understanding what I call developmental barriers.
Dr. Jono Taves (06:40.449)
And these are things that keep people in this cycle of pain. So think of a scenario where you go, you get your network done. works for a little bit, but then it comes back. things in the, in the barrier category that are going to pull you back into this state of tension. A big one that we look for is sleep and airway. So a lot of the patients we’re working with and people in general have underdeveloped airways. Think of anyone who’s had braces, right? Their mouth was too small. Their teeth.
were too crowded and then they had to like, you know, expand or pull teeth, that sort of thing. So our mouths are generally too small and that there’s a tangent we can go down there, but essentially like our ability to breathe through our nose properly is impacted. And so we have a lot of mouth breathers or at least people that are compensating when they breathe and they have to cock their head back and then they have all this tension built up. So the pain is coming from their neck, but there’s something else that’s contributing to the neck tension.
So that’s an example of a barrier. There are other things in that category. But that’s the second essential is understand what like is contributing to the actual source of pain. The third essential is systemically. So when we look at the body and someone’s general health, what we’re looking at is their threshold. And so when someone comes to us and it’s like, okay, you have a neck issue and you have an airway issue. If we just correct those two, but we miss their general health.
it’s gonna be a lot harder for them to have like long-term healing because their threshold might be so low if their gut health is all out of whack or they’re super stressed or their hormones are all over the place. And so what we have to do is understand someone’s general health and correct those things so that we increase their threshold or tolerance for pain, meaning the environment that that pain is experienced in is impacted by things like stress, hormones, gut health triggers with.
different foods, that sort of stuff, stuff that causes your whole body to be inflamed. And so those three essentials are key to our process. And it’s basically like bulletproof, like anyone that comes to us doesn’t matter type of headache or migraine. If we follow this plan, and we can knock down the three essential barriers, then we can find the healing that they’ve been looking for. Does that make sense?
Jannine Krause (09:00.942)
Absolutely, absolutely one of the ones that comes to mind we’re talking about the breathing because that is definitely something I’ve sent folks to specialists on to look at another one that’s kind of maybe more Let’s say recent more popular is the tongue tied situation I’m very curious how that plays in because I think a lot of people are aware of like, okay airway Yes, need to see my sleep study need to see, you know, my jaw placement all of that, but the
The tongue tie thing is a new one for folks. Give us a little s*** on that.
Dr. Jono Taves (09:32.031)
Yeah. Yeah. So tongue ties. Yeah, it’s basically a part of your anatomy, right? Like your tongue is too tight and it’s something that I think is largely overlooked. It should be caught as an infant, as a newborn. You know, if you work with a midwife, they’ll probably screen for it. I would say a lot of dentists aren’t really looking for it. I myself had a, like a moderate degree of a tongue tie.
And so I went through a procedure to get it cut just like two or three years ago. So essentially your tongue isn’t as mobile as it should be in your mouth, right? And so when it comes to something like as simple as swallowing, you’re looking at a compensation pattern in order to allow the same like seal and then swallowing pattern to happen. When it should just be happening with your tongue, you’re having to use accessory muscles throughout your face or your neck because your tongue
is supposed to seal on the roof of your mouth and then sort of in this wave motion, swallow the food back. And if it doesn’t have the mobility to do that, then you’ll compensate, you’ll kind of thrust your head forward, you’ll use facial muscles. And so there’s a lot more energy in order to get that done. So that’s number one, like you’re using more energy, you’re compensating, which can cause tension. The second thing is,
It’s essential for the tongue to be mobile and for swallowing to be proper for your upper palate to develop properly. And so as you are, as a child, it’s important for little kids to eat solid foods, right? Cause they get that chewing pattern down and their jaw develops. and then when they’re swallowing and their tongue is constantly pressing on the roof of their mouth. And so all of that leads to the development of the upper palate, which should be broad and sort of flat.
And if it’s really high and narrow and it doesn’t have that repeated pressure of the tongue, it won’t develop properly. So what that does is it impacts the nasal passage because you have this narrow and high arched upper palate, which basically impacts your nasal passage causing like deviated septums or just like a small airway. And so that, that then leads to mouth breathing in order to get the appropriate amount of oxygen in.
Dr. Jono Taves (11:50.93)
and mouth bring it again is going to cause your head to cock back, jaw to thrust forward. And that’s where a lot of people when they’re clenching or grinding at night, if their teeth are worn down, you know, they go to their dentist and they get a night guard or whatever, but ultimately they’re just not able to breathe through their nose well. And they’re trying to compensate throughout the night. And it looks like sleep apnea. And so that airway issue is a big one for us and it’s something we look for because it’s definitely going to cause that neck tension that ultimately leads to a headache or migraine.
Jannine Krause (12:20.728)
That makes perfect sense. And it’s one of the things I see a lot, you know, that, but I’m also seeing a lot of like, you’re describing the jaw and so folks will come in and they’ll say, well, my migraines are because I clenched my jaw and it’s affecting my trigeminal nerve and that’s what’s causing my headaches. And I’m like, okay, but we’ve worked on our trigeminal nerve, you know, we’ve worked on, you know, neck tension, things of that nature, but we’re not getting to the root of this. now that it makes me think, okay, like structurally, if we’ve got,
tight jaw, we’re grinding, we’re clenching, mouth guard’s a bandaid. I mean, it’s not gonna fix. Tell us how you guys are working with folks on that level. Like, okay, structurally, how are we working to reconnect things? What are we doing in there?
Dr. Jono Taves (13:06.718)
Yeah, yeah, there’s a few things. So I’m not an airway specialist, meaning like, you know, I’m not I’m not the one doing a tongue tie release. We’re also not trained in my functional therapy, which is basically like the type of therapy someone would go through to retrain their swallow and making sure they’re breathing through their nose and things like that. So those specialists do come in handy. Seeing someone who specializes in airway, usually their dentist, it’s going to be the minority though. So
you kind of need to be careful. Like if you just Google airway specialists, it probably leads to, you know, a CPAP machine, which isn’t like a never do that, but it’s definitely you want to work with someone who thinks more holistically and isn’t just going to force air down your, your mouth or nose. And so I would say partnering with a provider that like specializes in that as far as in our department, though, if someone’s dealing with, with airway issues,
Simple things like breathe right strips or mouth taping. Making sure that they can breathe through their nose comfortably for five minutes is kind of a baseline test because if they can’t, then it’s probably like we need to go see an ENT because you don’t even have the capacity to do this. But if it’s just as simple as like opening up, pulling the skin to open up the nasal passage and then they sleep better, like that suggestion alone has
Jannine Krause (14:10.168)
Okay.
Dr. Jono Taves (14:35.123)
cut some of our patients’ headaches in half, just because they’re not thrusting their jaw forward at night trying to open up their airway. And then we take them through our process, because oftentimes when people present with an airway issue and tension, the mechanical, like the compensation patterns that have led to the stress and tension they’re dealing with, if we can work through those,
then they naturally just start sleeping better. They’re able to breathe through their nose better. So sometimes it’s it’s kind of circular. Like the tension will lead to the problem being exacerbated. And then once you solve one of the problems, everything else gets easier. And so when people come to us, if they have a hard time breathing through their nose, it’s not like, okay, we got to take care this right away. We take them through a process. We’ll see how far they get. If it’s like, we’ve hit a roadblock, then, then we’ll, go deeper.
and maybe refer them out or something like that.
Jannine Krause (15:35.662)
Okay, okay. So I’m imagining you’re doing breath work kind of techniques like you said, seeing how long they can, how they can breathe through their nose, maybe the breathe right strips, different things to open up the airways as a whole. Are you working on any, you know, I know not my functional, but are you working on any releases? Are you working on anything structurally or self massage, any of those kinds of techniques, just out of curiosity.
Dr. Jono Taves (16:01.971)
Yeah, so everyone we see like our bread and butter techniques are the upper cervical spine joint mobilization. So basically, the upper part of the neck has a few key joints. So the segments of the spine of the upper part of the neck need to move. And if they don’t move, we basically just apply a specific pressure to those joints to get them moving. And then the same can apply to the jaw.
Oftentimes the jaw is responding to what the neck is dealing with. And so we fix the neck, the jaw kind of calms down. So stubborn jaw issues oftentimes are solved with the hands-on techniques we can do to the neck. And then, you know, the sinuses will drain, like there’s a lot of pressure built up because of all that tension and then things just start working better. The other component of this that might be interesting for your listeners though is something called over-breathing.
Jannine Krause (16:58.616)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jono Taves (16:58.919)
And so there’s the mechanical component of breathing. So meaning like how much air are you getting through your nose and are you breathing through your nose? Which is helpful because breathing through your nose produces nitric oxide, gets us in that rest and digest state. Now, there’s the other component of it is efficiency of breathing. So when we breathe, are we utilizing the oxygen that we breathe in? And so one test for this is just take three normal breaths through your nose, hold your breath.
and then see how many steps you can get before you have to take another breath. Like normal or the standard should be 80 steps. Now, most people are not going to get 80. Like I personally got like 35. And so what it means is like your hemoglobin binding to oxygen, like it’s not releasing that completely. Like your body’s not utilizing all the oxygen that you inhaled. And then it’s uncomfortable sitting with the carbon dioxide that’s building up. Okay.
And so you can essentially train your body like a muscle to be more efficient with the breathing you’re doing, because most people are like over breathing, meaning you exhale and then you’re immediately trying to get more air in, right? Whereas like box breathing and things like that, breath work, is trying to train your body to be okay sitting in that like, like hold your breath, slow down your breathing. And when we can do that, then we can increase our parasympathetic nervous system and get in that rest and digest.
But lots of people are also over breathing. And so that’s another component of this that without ever changing the like mechanical volume of air that we get in, if someone’s inefficient in the air they are getting in, then we can increase that as well, which then getting them in that parasympathetic tone to increase really helps with like pain management and then just muscle tension reduction, things like that.
Jannine Krause (18:57.45)
Makes sense, makes sense. Okay, because I think a lot of folks are starting to wake up to like breathing has a huge factor and definitely the body starved of oxygen will have different massages going up to the brain as well. Now in terms of the, I’m guessing you’re talking about the atlanto-occipital axis here. So, okay, okay. And so some folks may have heard that as like an AO adjustment, different things of that nature is kind of what you’re working.
with in that area, but you’re saying different pressure techniques compared to what some folks might be thinking of like traditional adjustments and things of that nature. And some of the ones that I’ve seen that look a little scary with like towels and things around the neck. So help shed some light on these kinds of things with folks so that they can kind of see like, what is this kind of adjustment or pressure? Like how is it working? What are you up to? What might they feel?
what kind of things would, for a lot of people, and I’ll just kind of back up for a second, when we get behind the ears, there’s a lot of points that really hurt, and we can feel where those attachments are, and we can go, that’s where it hurts, doc, put the needle there, or rub me there, give me a massage there, but it doesn’t always relieve a migraine. So, tell us what you’re doing beyond that.
Dr. Jono Taves (20:14.492)
Yeah. Yeah. So one of the, one of the fundamental things that we have to do is look at the neck from a movement perspective because our body was meant to move and we need to move in order to stay healthy. And so when we evaluate the neck, it’s important to, to not just stop it like a still image. So like an X-ray, MRI, CT, they’re all still images. Unfortunately, that’s like the primary evaluation tool that our healthcare system uses.
are, you know, we did imaging and so we, either your neck was fine or it’s like all screwed up, but it’s in the mid portion of the neck. And so the upper part of the neck is almost like never an issue, right? Like no one cares about it. It’s usually shows up okay on imaging. But the problem is we’re not looking at how you move. So the neck is really mobile and about half of our rotation comes from C1 and C2. Okay. So the, Atlas and the Axis. Okay.
So the axis is basically this thumb-like structure and the atlas sits on top of it and it rotates. Half of our rotation, so 45 degrees. Now that movement on, I mean, I’ve been doing this for seven years, seen over 1500 cases and like almost never is that fine. So there’s almost always a restriction in movement. Now, if we took a still image, we wouldn’t see much. I’m a physical therapist by training.
If you go to a chiropractic office, and chiropractors can do wonders on people, but it is different than what we’re doing. So a chiropractor is still going to work in that alignment model. And so their diagnosis and treatment is going to be based on shifting or repositioning of the atlas. What we do is we look at the atlas on the axis and we say, how much of the rotation is actually there? And when we try to rotate it, what happens?
And oftentimes just a little bit of pressure there and it reproduces a headache or migraine, or it’s, you know, that sore spot is kind of right where we’re working. And so when people have that irritation in the upper part of the neck, that’s exactly what’s actually sending pain into their head. And then once we restore mobility, that’s when we start unlocking this like, wow, like I’ve, I feel better than I ever have. And so the, what it looks like,
Dr. Jono Taves (22:36.668)
because it’s not like wrapping a towel around a neck and thrusting. We rarely, if ever, will do a thrust technique. Not saying those should never be done, but just our philosophy is more on a gentle, direct pressure that will improve mobility over time. Think of you hold your phone up to your ear, and after 15 minutes, your elbow gets stiff.
When we think about that, and if your elbow, if you didn’t actually straighten it out, like let’s say years went by and your elbow was just bent, what would happen is your elbow would initially be sore, just like it is after 15 minutes. That soreness would increase. The pain would increase. It’d probably start referring to your shoulder, maybe to your wrist, right? The muscles would be irritated. The joint itself would be inflamed, and then the joints around it would start to hurt. Okay? So think of the problem of headaches as like the same type of thing.
Now, if you had this elbow issue, and over time, just know that the body will respond to that loss of movement and adaptively shorten. So it’s not like you can just straighten your elbow after years, okay? And if you go to the doctor and the medical doctor says like, let’s inject into the joint, like a steroid, right? And like, okay, yeah, that helps. It reduces the inflammation. Or they say, take a pill to reduce the pain signal. And you’re like, yeah, that helped, right? But it wasn’t solving any issue.
Let’s say you go to a massage therapist, and the massage therapist massages the muscle tissue that’s tight. Well, yeah, that muscle tissue is going to be super tight. And you massage it, and it’ll feel better. But ultimately, the elbow is still not moving. Let’s say you go to a chiropractor, and the chiropractor adjusts the joint. We’re getting closer. Like the chiropractor adjusting a joint may relieve some of that pressure within the joint, which will feel good. But again, ultimately, like the arm just isn’t straightening still. And so it’s kind of like what we do is we just get the elbow to straighten again.
And then once you can move, like all those problems start going away. And so that’s how I explain it to people, because it kind of looks like, oh, you’re just working on the neck. Like I’ve had this done before. But the philosophy is key. And when we get movement back, it unlocks things that people didn’t think were possible.
Jannine Krause (24:50.732)
Makes sense, and yes, that’s why I’m drilling you on the neck because I’m like, okay, tell me more, tell me more, so I can understand this. So where I see this and working with the concept of straightening that elbow is looking at basically greasing the joint a little bit in there, but also all the muscles that are holding your head on straight. And so basically what my other thought on this when you were talking was like, okay.
most of us don’t have our heads on straight. And I mean that with all the love in the world to all of you. But I mean it in terms of like, we do postures, like a lot of people have postures where they’re stuck a little to this way, a little to the right, to the left. And then we have the phones, then we have all the other different things we do if we drive, whatever. So I’m imagining that that’s kind of some of the elbow.
being bent in that area and why some people aren’t like born with migraines and the migraines show up at certain times in life and maybe they don’t have a concrete connection but also I’m thinking about you’re in Colorado someone wipes out on the ski hill right and maybe they catch the cat track and they hit their head right at the back of the cat track you know and then now we’ve got
impact plus that or you endo on your mountain bike, whatever it may be. But what I’m thinking about is little restrictions that stay that way for long periods of time. Am I thinking about this the right way?
Dr. Jono Taves (26:07.389)
Yeah, yeah. So usually it’s not one thing. mean, people will have their head and neck trauma and it’ll contribute to it. Like sports injuries, concussions, things like that. Sometimes the trauma is bad enough where it like, okay, this was significant and it was never actually addressed. Like whiplash injuries, the shearing force through the neck and especially the most mobile joints are going to be the most vulnerable. And so we just see the upper part of the neck carrying this 10 to 12 pound head.
You know, one, there’s two types of stresses, right? Like there’s low load over long periods of time. And every time we’re upright, our neck is having to deal with a 10 to 12 pound head. So think of it like a bowling ball, right? You’re holding a bowling ball. If you hold that bowling ball close to you, it’s easier than holding it out in front of you. Same principle with the neck. If you’re able to move the bowling ball around, you’re going to get less fatigue than if you have to hold it in one spot, right? So think of our necks.
on one end of the spectrum is like the desk job and over time like you can definitely develop these issues. But on the other end is like a really quick shearing force where if you you know someone were to throw you a bowling ball and you have to catch it you have to respond to that the only problem with that analogy is you’re not really able to respond when you’re in a whiplash injury it’s just like everything is connected and has that sort of traumatic effect. And so the thing about the
the ligaments, the tendons, the muscles is they’re all, the brain is sending out a motor plan. So basically it says like, here’s what I want to happen and here’s how we’re going to coordinate. Well, there’s a very efficient way to move. And then there’s a way that most people move, which is like compensating and it’s inefficient. And then we just increase stress, but we don’t necessarily know that there’s a problem until that tension or stress is built up to the point where it’s like, okay, now we’re in pain.
And so that’s essentially what
Dr. Jono Taves (28:33.917)
If you are functioning in a dysfunctional way with the compensations over time, you’re at higher risk of starting to feel all the tension that’s building up. so if your listeners are like, man, I never did anything to cause my neck to hurt, but I have
you got to this point, I mean, there’s probably dozens of different things that contributed to it. We just have to get you to a point where your body’s more resilient, your neck is moving. We know what the barriers are and that your general health improves. And when we do that, we don’t have to be perfect, but we have to, we have to understand this well enough where what I tell people is it’s time on your side versus time against you. So up until the point where we see someone times kind of been working against them because of all the
the patterns, the dysfunctional patterns, and then we shift that and we get time on your side and now you’re kind of in control and you know what the problem is and you can fix it.
Jannine Krause (29:42.926)
That makes sense. That makes sense. mean, the body’s definitely gonna send out these signals of pain when it’s not moving or when it’s feeling blocked or when it’s, you know, saying like, hey, warning light over here. And so that makes sense. And so now, you know, you had mentioned the three different pillars and there’s some lifestyle stuff.
And so I’m very curious about what kind of lifestyle stuff that you’re recommending for folks and does it vary based on age? Does it vary based on, know, I’m thinking a lot of, I will see a lot of perimenopausal, menopausal women, women who are premenopausal who will have migraines around periods and hormone stuff too. And how you might look and weave that into this as well.
Dr. Jono Taves (30:23.088)
Yeah, so I’m also not a hormone expert. I know that a lot of, a lot of hormone problems. So when we think about things that impact our body as a whole, systemically, like hormones, usually it just comes down to general health. Like, you know, how are you sleeping? What’s your stress level? What’s your diet like? Are you exercising? And so those, those pillars of what your health looks like, if we improve those, then
Oftentimes those things will kind of work themselves out. I oversimplified that because we use specialists that have specific programs like yourself, Dr. J, that can get into the specifics of someone’s health background and prescribe at a level that’s like needed. But when it comes to
Okay, if someone comes to me and they’re like, okay, I have a hormonal migraine, the lever that we’re going to pull is like, okay, you’re carrying a ton of tension. And when estrogen levels fluctuate, your pain threshold is going to fluctuate as well. And so let’s get your healthy lifestyle in order so that, you know, maybe the dramatic change in estrogen isn’t as dramatic. That’s great. And that will be just like general recommendations. Like, you know, are you just like craving sugar all the time?
What’s sleep look like? That’s a huge one for us actually. And I’ll touch on that. But yeah, what’s your sleep look like? Are you exercising? We know that 90 minutes of moderate intensity exercise throughout the week is like gonna match what a lot of these like tryptan medications are doing. So there’s lots of like just simple general health ways to help manage pain. And so…
We kind of take a high level view on those perspectives. And then if it needs to get specific, we would refer out to someone like yourself.
Jannine Krause (32:27.5)
Okay, okay. Well, you mentioned sleep, big factor, lifestyle factor, hydration, all those I’m sure come into play here too. So tell us about what you’re telling folks about sleep. What do they need to be doing to help with migraines?
Dr. Jono Taves (32:39.952)
Yeah. Yeah. So usually like when, when I’m taking someone through our health coaching process, we come up with a plan. So we interview them and then we, we kind of lay out these three essentials and we say, here’s the things that we need to address in each of these. For most people, sleep is one of the first ones that we’re addressing. Cause I, I need them waking up feeling rested. I need them waking up feeling better than when they went to bed.
And so if someone’s waking up feeling worse, like if their headache starts in the morning or their migraine starts in the morning, we need to solve that problem. And so I already mentioned like breathe right strips or mouth taping, like it’s airway. The other component of it is just sleeping in a position that your neck is going to be okay with. And so I would say avoid stomach sleeping. If you’re a side sleeper, hug a pillow, put one in between your knees so that you’re not twisted at all.
And then generally I recommend a foam pillow so that the width of your shoulder is accounted for and your neck can still be in a neutral position. And then back sleeping is fine. Back sleeping is pretty low maintenance, meaning you don’t need all the additional pillows and you should be okay. And so getting your sleep position correct, maybe doing a few simple stretches for like the shoulders. It could even be that the over-breathing test just
do that as an exercise or work on your breathing before you go to bed. And so you can kind of ramp up your parasympathetic nervous system. So sleeping position, airway, let’s get sleep to be the best it can be so that you wake up feeling rested. And then throughout the day, it’s generally just let’s move as much as we can. Sitting is kind of the enemy. And so I’m not in the business of like recommending office chairs, because I’d rather just people stand like I’m standing right now.
And so standing desks are great. Frequent walks, like low level movement throughout the day is huge. And so if we can get those, it’s, you know, we also teach people like specifics that they can do for their neck and shoulders to their situation. But in general, we just want to move more, want to be sleeping. We want, we want to have our diet in good shape, meaning like eat whole foods. Not like, I mean, you can go to the grocery store, whole foods, but you know, whole organic, real foods.
Dr. Jono Taves (35:02.107)
locally sourced, that sort of stuff. Yeah.
Jannine Krause (35:05.358)
Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, Whole Foods isn’t what it used to be. Anyway, nevermind. It’s the thing. So, of course I think a lot of people now are like, okay, I’m intrigued. How many sessions can folks fly out to visit you? How do you work with folks when they’re not in town? And then we’ll talk about in town. But also I’m curious about how many sessions on average? Like kind of what’s the sweet spot? And all that jazz.
Dr. Jono Taves (35:11.385)
Yeah.
Dr. Jono Taves (35:33.456)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So just about every week we have someone flying from out of state. And so we have a program for that. It’s fairly intensive. So we’d see a twice a day for the week that you’re here. We want people here for at least a week. If they can give us more, we’ll take it. And so we do have, like I said, every week we have at least one or two people that are flying out for treatment.
and then if you live in Colorado, we actually work with people, it’s a, generally it’s a year long process. So, the first two, three months are more intensive and then we, we sort of wean off and stick with you throughout the year because headaches and migraines are a big deal. And so we want to, we want to make sure that we cover our bases, those three essentials, and that we’re actually solving this problem. and then we also have a virtual coaching program where you get that.
that plan with the three essential components specific to your situation. And then we basically work the plan with you. So those are kind of our three offers.
Jannine Krause (36:41.666)
And so there’s some homework involved, I see. Are there exercises involved?
Dr. Jono Taves (36:47.547)
Yeah, we, you know, being physical therapists, are movement based. And so there’s specific exercises that we’ll have for basically, yeah, basically everyone we think of it like a dentist. mean, a hundred years ago, their dentists weren’t as prominent brushing and flossing wasn’t as big of a deal. And then it became a big deal. And now everyone brushes and flosses and realizes that they need to take care of their teeth. And so
Essentially, we live in an environment that’s not really conducive to our necks just being okay. And so because that’s true, we try to implement like our brushing and flossing in our own world of like taking care of your neck. And that can look different for everyone, but we try to implement things that are sustainable and you can basically stick with for the rest of your life. When we start out, it’s a little bit more intensive. know, we might have like five to 10 things that you’re doing, but…
eventually we get to the point where it’s just like, keep implementing these things just like you would never stop brushing your teeth.
Jannine Krause (37:53.239)
Okay.
So it’s for life, that’s good, makes sense, because now we have something to work on, but also something that if, you know, obviously if the headaches are gone, folks are gonna wanna do these things because, I mean, if you’ve had a migraine, you certainly don’t want another one that’s hands down. Now of course it would be a miss if I didn’t mention, because you are in Colorado, it is a higher altitude environment. A lot of people do get migraines when they go up to areas. I mean, Colorado Springs too, but I’ve seen it up in, you know, the mountains and skiing and whatnot,
Dr. Jono Taves (38:06.169)
Right, totally.
Jannine Krause (38:23.888)
in those different areas. Would you say that the altitude shift is about airways? Or would you say it’s about how someone’s breathing just in general with the over breathing component? How would you put it together for like high altitude migraines? And would you invite someone to come down and see on their way out of town if they’re flying out of Denver and say, hey, they can’t get it worked out.
Dr. Jono Taves (38:46.223)
Yeah.
Dr. Jono Taves (38:50.467)
Right, yeah, for sure. It’s funny, some people move here and they see an increase in their headaches or migraines. Some people move here and it’s like, they’re fine. So there’s a few factors. One is barometric pressure changes and those will impact already irritated joints, just like someone with knee arthritis feels it. And so the weather constantly shifting can definitely be a part of that. But again, that’s a neck problem essentially.
And so once we fix the neck, the barometric pressure shifting isn’t as big a deal. The other thing is, altitude. It’s basically just, you know, the body here is under slightly more stress than at sea level. And so, yeah, if someone’s already having a hard time breathing, over-breathing, getting the oxygen that they need, and then they come to altitude, it’s like, okay, I just feel worse. Like things are worse. And it’s just like that, that general altitude sickness, but it…
That’s the threshold component. So that’s like the general health. When, when we’re in an environment that our body has to work harder just to function, we’re more vulnerable to experiencing, you know, the, the underlying problems that we’re dealing with. And so I would say going up in altitude is, that like, you’re just adding another stressor to your body.
Jannine Krause (40:08.824)
Good to know. mean, I think a lot of people that I saw back when I was working in Colorado doing acupuncture, a lot of folks would come up on vacation. They were prone to migraines and then it would just be like, you know, explosion for them. And so so good to know that, you know, lifestyle stuff is a factor, but also that if nothing else they’ve done wherever they came from is working for them, they might as well, you know, take a little trip down the road there. And guys, he’s in Colorado Springs and Parker. And so not too far either direction.
And of course for all my folks that are in Summit County, y’all can drive right down 285 real quick down there. So, gotta put that in there for you. So with Novera Headache Center, you guys have your in-person, you also have your virtual version of things, and then you have the folks can travel in to see you. Is that all on the website? Everybody can find that there?
Dr. Jono Taves (40:45.082)
That’s right.
Dr. Jono Taves (41:03.768)
Yeah, so basically on the website, there’s the virtual care option, there’s the in-person care option. It all leads to basically the same calendar. And so we have an onboarding specialist, will have a 15-minute phone call with you and make sure he understands your situation and knows how to properly funnel you through our process and which offer is best for you, how to provide you with the best solution possible.
Yeah, just on the website, noverahediccenter.com, there’s buttons all over the place to just go to that calendar. So it’s pretty easy to know what to do. And then yeah, the Headache Doctor podcast, if you’re like, I’m not sure yet, but I want to know more, hop over there. And, you know, I talk more about this type of stuff.
Jannine Krause (41:43.661)
Yes.
Jannine Krause (41:52.098)
Hey, and are you on Instagram social media at all or better to look at the podcast?
Dr. Jono Taves (41:56.536)
Yeah, for sure. So Novera Headache Center on Instagram, and then I actually have a pretty robust TikTok following at the Headache Doctor. Yeah, so whatever platform you’re on, it’s either Novera Headache Center or the Headache Doctor.
Jannine Krause (42:06.315)
Okay.
Jannine Krause (42:11.786)
Okay, got it, got it. All right, well, we’ll make sure that folks see that in our podcast notes at Dr. Spelled Out, J-K-R-A-U-S-E-N-D.com. Dr. Jono Taves thank you so much for coming on and sharing so much about headaches that I had no idea in terms of that little lovely spot up in the connection between our head and our spine. Go figure. We’ve got that joint too now to help with mobilization and needing to mobilize things. So thanks again for coming on. I sincerely appreciate it.
Dr. Jono Taves (42:41.486)
Yeah, it was fun. Thanks for having me.
