Ep 535: The Mind’s Role in Healing: Root Causes with Dr. Moshe Daniel Block, ND

Dr. Jannine Krause interviews Dr. Moshe Daniel Block, a naturopathic doctor, homeopath, and author who overcame the autoimmune condition myasthenia gravis. This experience inspired him to create the Vis Dialogue, a holistic counseling method that blends body-mind medicine and psychology to uncover the root causes of illness.

Dr. Moshe shares insights on the powerful role of the mind in health and illness, the importance of addressing subconscious beliefs, and how naturopathic medicine’s principles can empower healing. Learn why symptoms shouldn’t be suppressed, how belief systems influence health outcomes, and why reconnecting with the body’s innate healing power is crucial.

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Key Highlights

1. Symptoms as Messages: Instead of suppressing symptoms, view them as signals pointing to unresolved issues in your thinking and beliefs.
2. Mind-Body Connection: The root of many chronic illnesses lies in subconscious mental-emotional patterns.
3. Healing Power of Nature: Reconnecting with the philosophy of naturopathic medicine and trusting the body’s innate ability to heal.
4. Empowerment in Healing: Understanding the power of belief systems and taking charge of your health outcomes.
5. Dr. Moshe’s Journey: Overcoming myasthenia gravis using a mind-body approach and developing the Vis Dialogue to guide others on their healing journeys.

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About Dr. Moshe Daniel Block

• Education & Training:
  • Graduated from the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine (2000).
  • Completed the Homeopathic Master Clinician course (2003).
• Books:
  • The Revolution of Naturopathic Medicine: Remaining True to Our Philosophy (2004).
  • Holistic Counseling – Introducing the Vis Dialogue (2016).
• Professional Focus: Helping patients uncover and address the root causes of illness through holistic, mind-body approaches.

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Resources Mentioned

• Books by Dr. Moshe:
  • The Revolution of Naturopathic Medicine
  • Holistic Counseling – Introducing the Vis Dialogue
• Training Programs:
  • 1-Year Certification in the Vis Dialogue: holistic-counseling.ca
• Connect with Dr. Moshe:
  • Website: dr-moshe.com
  • Individual consultations and further resources.
• Additional Resources:
  • The Option Institute
  • Exploring the power of belief systems.

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Quote from Dr. Moshe

“Healing begins when we stop suppressing symptoms and start listening to the messages our mind and body are sending us. True transformation comes from uncovering and shifting the subconscious beliefs driving our health challenges.”

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Listen to this episode to discover how the mind plays a pivotal role in healing and how you can harness its power for your health!

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Podcast Transcript

1:05 – Intro

4:33 – Dr. Moshe’s background

8:03 – Nutraceuticals

18:59 – Dr. Moshe’s program for naturopaths

30:58 – “What have you adopted in your mind to help you survive your trauma?”

38:58 – What does holistic mean?

48:07 – Implications for life and evolution of the soul

50:48 – When nothing seems to be working

100:57 – Where to find Dr. Moshe online

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[Preview] Prognosis coming from conventional medicine is coming from a form of medicine

That is suppressive in nature and therefore worsens the the outcome by its suppressive nature

So don’t take the prognosis of what conventional medicine says

Decide for yourself how you want the outcome to be

Simon O’Hanneman and the organ on the founder of homeopathy talks about that when you suppress symptoms

The vital force needs to strengthen itself against the external factor to which ultimately

strengthens the disease.

So by suppressing, we strengthen the disease.

It has to push harder to go against the suppression.

It might like pop out another way, a worse way.

Usually it’s deeper, it’s worse.

[Intro] Welcome to The Health Fix Podcast, where health junkies get their weekly fix of tips, tools,

and techniques to have limitless energy, sharp minds, and fit, physiques for life.

Hey, Health Junkies.

JANNINE: On this episode of The Health Fix Podcast, I’m going to be talking about the mind and

its most powerful activity to help us in health and where the true root causes of illness lie,

especially when we’re talking about chronic illness, autoimmune conditions, things of

that nature, the tough to treat cases. Now, Dr. Moshe Daniel Block is going to join me

today on the podcast. And he’s a fellow naturopathic doctor who through overcoming the autoimmune

condition myasthenia gravis created a holistic counseling method, blending mind body medicine

and psychology. And he calls it the Vese dialogue, which will explain all of what that means

in the vodcast. Now, Dr. Emosheh received his training in naturopathic medicine from the Canadian

College of naturopathic medicine in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. And he graduated in 2000, so he’s a

little bit ahead of me in the game. Now, he went on to also complete a homeopathic master clinician

course in 2003. So he’s going back to some old school medicine. Cool stuff. We’ll be talking

about that today on the podcast too. Now, he’s the author of two books, The Revolution of naturopathic

medicine remaining true to our philosophy. And then also a book about the philosophy and practice

of naturopathic medicine and holistic counseling. And this is where he introduces his method, the

V’s dialogue. So in this podcast, we dive into trends we’re seeing in naturopathic medicine that

we don’t exactly love, what we do like, what’s happening in the world of naturopathic medicine.

We also talk about what he’s learned in 25 years of practice, helping thousands of patients achieve

life-changing results, we talk about the root of autoimmune conditions and chronic health conditions

and why homeopathy, naturopathic medicine, and mind-body medicine are primed to help in these

particular cases. We also dive into why suppressing symptoms strengthens chronic illness. Why getting

sick is a sign of our thinking. Now it’s not all in your head, but it kind of is. We’ll talk about

that. And we also talk about the difference between different types of naturopathic doctors.

We talk about what is this V-s thing, which by the way, it’s the healing power of nature.

We’ll dive into that. We’re also going to talk about homeopathy. And I have not brought that up

on the podcast. Homeopathy is a “like cures like” type of medicine that was created by Samuel Hanuman

back in the 1800s. And it’s kind of fallen out of popularity, but it does have some powerful

capabilities and so we’re going to bring that to light today. And then we’re also going to talk

about not holding on to your diagnosis, prognosis, and really deciding for yourself how your health

outcome is going to be. And while you’re listening to this podcast, that is the biggest takeaway I

want you to really be thinking about, how can you change your outcome in your health? So,

Let’s introduce you to Dr. Moshe Daniel Block.

Dr. Moshe, welcome to the Health Fix podcast.

DR. MOSHE: Thank you so much, honored to be here.

Lots of pleasure, thank you.

JANNINE: Oh, it’s always a pleasure to talk to fellow NDs.

I just love to hear like the stories

and what you’re up to and also how you got into

becoming a naturopath.

So do tell, I love this part of the podcast.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, cool.

Me too, I love this topic.

So I was like always sick as a kid.

And there was a lot of suffering with that.

You know, missing school, missing friend stuff,

just being sick.

And I had this feeling when I was a kid,

I wanna help people so they don’t have to experience

like what I experienced.

And I was also kind of like a bit of like a science nerd.

I like science stuff.

So naturopathic medicine was almost like a nat,

like it was like a,

I was gonna say a no brainer

that offered this balance of healing

’cause I didn’t wanna be a straight up medical doctor.

I recognize the issues with that even as a young kid.

And I didn’t want it to just be a sort of woo woo woo

kind of healing thing.

Although I’m much more woo woo than the science part.

like I am what people would call who I’m very much into things that I find profoundly healing

and deeply true and scientific, but science isn’t caught up yet, right?

So I chose natural medicine because it offered this balance of science and rooted in the

conventional sciences and then these other modalities like homeopathy and acupuncture

and counseling and he like beautiful holistic aspects.

JANNINE: I agree, more tools in the toolbox

and for those of us that are nerdy,

it’s like, you know, I’m like, oh wait,

I can make teas and I can make tinctures.

Like how fun is that?

I can do all these fun things.

Whereas with conventional, yeah, I weighed it out

and I’m like, all right, so I’m gonna give pills

or I’m gonna become a surgeon or I’m gonna, you know,

do procedures.

And I’m like, well, that sounds fun.

I like the other better.

I’m guessing you found all the different things

we could do like fun.

DR. MOSHE: I did, exactly.

Fun is definitely been a motivating factor for me.

I remain a kid at heart.

And you know, conventional medicine is,

I still think it offers a pretty strong way

of giving us heroic medicine when it’s necessary.

for crazy emergencies where your life is on the line

and the symptoms have to be completely controlled

to save a life.

And that’s a beautiful thing that it offers.

But for conventional, sorry, for chronic illness,

it has very little to offer because its model

is still based on the very thing that makes it good

to for emergency is suppress the symptoms.

And suppressing symptoms is not good in the long run

because it just worsens.

So, you know, Samuel Hanuman in the organ

on the founder of Homeopathy talks about that.

When you suppress symptoms, the vital force needs to strengthen

itself against the external factor

to which ultimately strengthens the disease.

So by suppressing, we strengthen the disease.

It has to push harder to go against the suppression.

And it might like pop out another way, a worse way.

Usually it’s deeper, it’s worse.

So that’s not really a good solution for chronic illness.

We want to be reaching, you know, addressing the root of illness.

JANNINE: Absolutely, absolutely.

And I think this is where naturopathic medicine shines.

I mean, this is where our root of medicine came from.

And you and I’ve talked about before you hit report,

record that unfortunately we’ve kind of lost that.

we’ve now found like there’s a nutraceutical,

the counter-a symptoms.

So now we’re coming very into that same paradigm.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, exactly.

It’s the allopathic paradigm.

So instead of using, let’s say, a big pharma drug,

patented drug, we’re using nutraceuticals

in the same model,

which is to address the symptoms of illness

rather than the cause.

And that’s a lesser evil,

Because in general, the substances that we offer to, you know, as

nutraceuticals are less toxic, less harmful, have less widespread

physiological action in the body. But it still does the person

of disservice in them not recognizing their their beautiful

responsibility and involvement in their healing. I believe after

you know, 25 years of practice that we get sick for a reason.

And the reason is that we are stuck in misunderstanding some aspect of

ourself or aspect of creation of our purpose here in life.

So we have to recognize that.

And then we’re liberated from the, if we could call it karma or stuckness.

And then that heals the body, ultimately meaning that our false perception of reality is the very root in my awareness of what makes us sick.

So getting sick is simply a sign of the problem of our thinking.

And all the different modalities can assist in moving the body and help support the body.

But ultimately, the most important factor is the mind.

That’s my opinion after having gone through my own illness

and working with people for the last 25 years.

JANNINE: Isn’t it wild how you come to that realization?

I’m in 17 and probably at about 10,

I was like, something’s missing here.

Something’s missing.

And you hit it the nail on the head.

A lot of people haven’t heard about the vise.

This is your body’s inhale.

This is you, this is your inherent ability to heal.

in naturopathic medicine school. We talk about a year one and then it’s like gone with the wind.

DR. MOSHE: We pay it lip service. Yes. We put it in our flyers. And you know, just to distinguish between

what we’re talking about, the problem lies at the level of the education, like at the college level.

But there’s lots of brilliant NDs out there doing their thing and totally applying the vise.

I would not say that they’re a majority, especially with more younger generations of

naturopathic doctors coming out, but the more elder practitioners are, they’re down with the

V. So our profession is made up of those who are in the know, like us, and who love the V.

And who want to understand the mysteries and continue to unfold with that. And then those who

are simply, you know, went into natural medicine because they needed a career, they wanted to be

a doctor, and they just did what they learned. So they’re not self-inspired or they’re not inspired

from the source of nature, which is like really the source of the soul that teaches directly through

the heart. So that potential is always there for everybody, but there has been, you know, some

misleading by the confusion of identity that naturopathic medicine has and believing that

we have to gain credibility by emulating conventional medicine. So while they’re driving off the

cliff and humanity is recognizing that, we’re trying to emulate that model, which is kind of a

dead model. And it’s a shame. It shows you that there is some corruption there in the at the college

level unfortunately. 

JANNINE: Yeah. Yeah. Sadly, I mean, I don’t ever want to to give Bastyr to your bad name

because I had a great education. However, I get it in terms of they’re trying to keep up.

They’re trying to give us credibility. So we’re not quacks. And you know what, I hate to say it.

You go into it knowing that you just got to know if anyone who’s you know got family members who

might want to be a naturopath, you have to go in and you got to get a tough skin. I can’t

anything else other than that because you’re gonna get called a quack you’re gonna get you know

you’re gonna get beat up and there’s gonna be a little bit of if you let it happen like I did

for some years I’d let it I let it get to me and then it kind of turned me towards it is everything

I’m doing a joke and then I’m like no no 

DR. MOSHE: Yeah now absolutely you know one of the most important

determinates for health is a person’s ability, openness, willingness to be themselves.

So, you know, just be who you are. Don’t filter your voice. Don’t resist your joyful inclinations

to be you. Like your unique flower nature, just be it. And conventional medicine, sorry,

naturopathic medicine, what we’re talking about, has a very beautiful, unique flowerness to offer

to humanity. But we’re making the mistake of trying to emulate, to gain credibility, rather than

if you build it, he will come. If you are yourself, they will come. And people,

That’s a fact, like the amount of money that people are spending to seek practitioners

outside of the conventional box is enormous. That’s why the pharmaceuticals morphed a little bit

into nutraceuticals to try to take a bite out of that market. I really think the naturopaths have to

not ask for permission just to just to shine our light, just to just to bring our message.

JANNINE: Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. And I hope that you know,

I do know that I have got some naturopaths that are listening to this podcast and I hope

everybody hears this because we do need to be ourselves and not try to follow a broken system

because we’re going to become more broken. And that leads me into now and not and I don’t want

anyone to think they’re broken. Don’t mean that. But it just don’t follow the model.

DR. MOSHE: Well, not permanently. Not permanently. But we are all wounded. I think that’s a fact, you know,

in the astrological, the wounded healer, Chiron, is a very strong

metaphor analogy for naturopaths and for healers. It’s true. And through that wound,

The light of God, the light of healing shines because there’s a Hebrew expression.

It’s a “hofetov olech legeinom” which means “the good doctor goes through hell.”

It means that you don’t really have what it takes to really help people unless you yourself have

suffered through your wound. I can give you countless examples of why that’s true, but

One example is like before I experienced depression,

I had this attitude of like,

I can’t, just get over it.

Like, oh, you’re depressed, come on,

just get over it, like change your mindset, get over it.

But then when I got really deeply depressed,

ironically during my stint at

at naturopathic medical school,

I understood and I could help people,

I could have compassion for them.

So there’s that, you know, definitely.

JANNINE: And interesting how naturopath school provoked depression,

I ended up with anxiety out of control.

And, you know, I look at other classmates

throughout the timeframe and I’m like, wow, okay.

We were probably seeing this isn’t what we thought, right?

We’re probably thinking like, oh, this isn’t, you know,

our bodies were thinking like, wait a minute.

And the soul was like, wait a minute,

this isn’t what I signed up for.

I want more plants and herbs and, you know.

DR. MOSHE: And meditation and like loving nature

and really getting into the subtleties

of the healing power nature.

You know, any knowledge is good knowledge.

It’s a tool in the tool belt.

So what we did learn is good knowledge.

The problem is that it’s in balance.

It’s not taught within the light of holism.

So differential diagnosis, pathology,

within the light of holism.

How does this pathology come to take place

as a result of this type of thinking,

this form of suppression of emotion,

this lack of dealing properly with one’s sexuality.

Like in the greater context to learn pathology

would be a lot better of an educational process.

And I worked with quite a few young doctors coming out of naturopathic medicine school,

and they are traumatized by the process.

That’s unfortunate.

I’m in favor of rigor, strong educational rigor and excellence in intellect.

good with that. But traumatizing students kind of flies in the face of what we’re trying

to do, ya know. 

JANNINE: Right. Right. No, it was a different. I mean, it’s definitely a different time

now compared to when we were there. But it also, you know, kind of leads into where all

of the rigor, those kinds of things, it’s great. But we miss the sole part of it. We

miss really focusing on unlocking what we need to actually heal, being able to look deep,

look within and giving power over to the system versus another doctors versus ourselves.

This is where I want to hear your story about my soniographis and how you’ve come to create

your program for naturopaths now, looking at this thing like we’ve lost the power to go within.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, for sure. I’d be happy to discuss that. I just wanted to share one thing. I think one of the

greatest gifts or maybe that’s not the right word. One of the greatest assets that naturally

medicine has access to is homeopathy. And I think that the health of a college can be like home

of these a barometer to measure the health of the college. And a lot of the colleges have been

shouldering it out because it’s too vitalistic.

It’s too like Cures like it doesn’t fall

into the aromatic material-based model of reality

that unfortunately the colleges are adhering to.

So that’s a problem.

Homiopti should be front and center.

It should be one of the main modalities

that naturopaths use because of its efficacy,

It’s gentleness and yet power.

It offers an incredible potential for healing and power,

even if it’s just for acute situations.

Of course, for chronic illness, also very powerful.

So unfortunately, to see schools just like exiting it out

or planning to is a sign

that they’re going in the wrong direction.

It’s truly like the canary in the mind, right?

for the health of the program.

My experience, so yeah,

I did have a very interesting experience with illness.

I was diagnosed in 19.

Let me see if I could get this right.

Seems like a long time ago.

Okay, 19, wait a sec.

I’m like forgetting, oh yeah, 1995, there we go.

I was diagnosed with my astenia gravis.

I was very, very sick.

I could barely get out of a chair or out of a bed

when I was lying down.

I had paralysis of my arms, chewing, swallowing,

double vision, droopy eyelids, et cetera, et cetera.

And I, when I got diagnosed, I was told,

it’s incurable, it’s progressive,

and it’s potentially fatal.

So I didn’t like that, I don’t like that prognosis

and that diagnosis.

And I had in my mind, I had this feeling, no, no,

I’m gonna heal myself, that was my intention.

So no matter what we’re suffering from,

having a strong clear intention

of what we wanna get out of the experience

is kind of important.

Not to take the prognosis of conventional medicine

as a be all and end all,

because it’s very powerful in creating the nasebo effect.

people might be carrying tumors, cancerous tumors for decades.

And then they get a diagnosis and they’re dead a few months later.

JANNINE: Right.

DR. MOSHE: So prognosis coming from conventional medicine is coming from a form of medicine

that is suppressive in nature and therefore worsens the outcome by its suppressive nature.

So don’t take the prognosis of what conventional medicine says.

decide for yourself how you want the outcome to be.

Point number one.

So I did that.

I just instinctively did that.

Like maybe because I didn’t like the idea that it was progressive and incurable and

potentially fatal.

So I actually went to this place called the Options Institute a few months after my diagnosis.

I was trying a lot of different things.

Nothing was really helping mildly.

maybe like 5%, 10%, taking an edge off the symptoms.

But I was still quite sick.

I went to the options institute.

That’s the institution that Barry Neil Kaufman

and Samaria Kaufman founded.

They helped autistic kids.

They had an autistic child in the 70s

and they helped him through this process of mirroring.

For two and a half years, they just mirrored what he did.

If he spun plates, they spun plates.

If he banged his head, they simulated that just until he realized, wait a sec,

I’m not in my own isolated world reality.

After two and a half years, he came from being fully autistic to having a near genius IQ.

So they’re tapped in.

They’re really tapped in.

And I really appreciate what I learned there within my first hour, I want to say,

my whole life was changed because Barry Neocofan was teaching about the power of belief systems.

And it just lit up my soul. It answered something that was dormately knowing,

and it just brought this to life. So not only did I learn about belief systems,

but I also did a dialogue through the process of what he called the “optive a dialogue” that was

offered through the Options Institute. And the very first session, I was asked a series of

questions like, “So, what are we dealing with today? Oh, my, is the eugrabbous. Oh, what’s that?

Muscular paralysis. What’s that like for you? Oh, it sucks. Blah, blah, blah, down, down, down,

into this question that I was asked because out of my mouth came this answer,

“Well, I need to be perfect.” The next question was the question that

did it for me, “What makes you believe you need to be perfect?” And within the question was the

answer. And that’s not always the case with people. Sometimes they can’t go into the answer,

but I was able to go into the answer. And the answer was, “Wow, I don’t need to be perfect.

I just never thought about that before.

And the cascade, I learned so much, Dr. Janine from this,

I learned so much in that moment of time

’cause I had a spontaneous healing.

My muscles filled with strength.

I felt the flow of the vital force fill in my body.

My eyes cleared up, I could breathe again.

It was truly remarkable and miraculous.

Of course, it’s just what was happening was,

I believe I needed to be perfect,

and I judged myself through that lens of perfection.

I never made it, I never made perfection.

So I was always beating myself up.

And that energy turned against myself

is the perfect formula for autoimmune disease.

because the body in my awareness is the faithful puppy dog

for the mental, emotional field.

It does what you tell it to do.

If you’re like, good dog,

it’s like wagging its tails full of life and joy.

If you’re like, what’s wrong with you?

Like stupid, stupid, stupid,

which is what I was doing in myself perpetually,

it’ll turn against itself.

And the way it does so is with the immune system

because it had attack.

The immune system can attack and it can defend.

It’s better that it defends and attacks those little things we don’t want.

So I was attacking myself and when I removed from the cause this idea that I need to be

perfect and said I don’t, then the attacking stopped right away and my body was restored.

Almost like that.

Maybe it took a few minutes.

It was really like, oh yeah, there it is.

There is my life force again.

So I’ll never forget that.

And it’s been the torch that has enabled me to,

you know, wade through a lot of darkness in the program,

my own darkness, doubt in practice, you know,

when we start as naturopathic doctors,

we could have doubt, right?

Like insecurities.

But because I had that experience,

I would, I, I, I, I, there was no doubt about it for me.

And, um, and so I have developed a program to train people.

I basically took the opt of a dialogue that I learned from

baronio coffin.

And I’ve evolved it over the last 25 years for, um, naturopathic

practice, so to speak, for working with a lot of physical stuff.

Because through the V-st dialogue, I call it the V-st dialogue.

“V” being from the Latin, as you know,

“V” is Mediaketri’s nature eye, the healing power of nature.

So it’s the healing power of nature dialogue,

which helps people to start with their chief complaint,

which could be mental emotional suffering,

or physical theology, physical chronic illness.

It could be acute too, but let’s stick with chronic for now.

And by asking similar questions, which I’ve evolved,

getting to the root cause in the mind so that the patient, the client, the person can see

with their conscious mind into the subconscious world where these beliefs are operating, you

know, our software, our mental, emotional software and impacting our physiology. And

And so, yeah, I train doctors now and other practitioners.

And lay people who are into healing.

You know, we’re at the point today where people have a lot of knowledge.

So they’re not just completely in the dark.

They’re taking care of themselves, they’re doing stuff.

So I will train lay people when they show signs of having that ability.

to do this in my program, all the holistic counseling, the V-style out. So yeah, did I answer

everything there? I feel like it was pretty thorough answer.

It’s a lot, right? 

JANNINE: It’s a lot for folks to impact in terms of, you know, if they’ve been listening

to my podcast for a while, they’ve heard me say you have everything inside of you to heal yourself.

And I say it a lot.

And did I believe that when I first started natural path

school?

No.

And did I believe it when I watched my mom die of cancer?

No, that was in ’04.

I graduated in ’07.

By the time I graduated, I started

to really be like, what is this beast crap?

And really, like, doubted, went through a whole thing.

But the longer I’ve been in the practice

and started to realize, on my own, like you said,

your own journey, my own journey of like intense anxiety and burnout. I realized like,

I could talk to myself, I could ask myself the questions. And this is much like, you know,

a lot of people may have heard of Byron Katie, the questions.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, yeah, definitely. The work.

JANNINE: Yeah, yeah, you’re just asking, you’re asking yourself questions, you’re getting to know your

your inner self. And, you know, another big thing I like to tell folks is like question

and everything that’s happened to question the whole process.

And so it sounds like what you’re doing

with your series of questions to the V-s

is literally asking what went wrong?

What do I need?

What’s up here?

Like obviously not exactly in those questions, but–

DR. MOSHE: But definitely along that lines.

Yeah, what I would say is what I’m asking is,

What have you adopted in your mind

to help you survive your trauma,

to help you survive your wounding?

We’ve all been wounded this world now,

ideally maybe at some point in the future,

it’ll evolve greater, but it’s an imperfect world.

Our parents are wounded themselves.

So they’re not capable of loving us the way we like.

So we get wounded and we either literally learn

from our parents, their beliefs,

or because of the nature of the pain

that we can’t wrap our heads around

because we come from the belly of the divine.

It doesn’t make sense to our soul what’s going on.

And we can’t control the world around us,

but what we can control is our reality.

And so we create a form of control

in the form of a false belief system

to try to almost encapsulate the hurt.

So our mind tries to encapsulate the hurt

so we can deal with it better.

It helps us survive, but it keeps the hurt locked in

and that will grow in time.

So basically what I’m looking for with the V-style log

is to understand, to dust around the edges

and to really evoke an understanding

of what is precisely the language

of the false belief system.

And then when we can derive that,

and when the person could see that,

then we ask the question,

which puts it into the realm of choice,

do you want to keep believing this?

Because we could understand this is what we believe,

but to be asked the question,

do you want to believe this is an invitation to recognize

you don’t have to.

– Right.

Right.

So the complexity in that deep spot is that the person has become very identified with that belief as a means of survival

But it’s surviving something that happened then

and

It’s not happening now and there was another thing that they could have done then even though in many cases

It’s not realistic to consider that for a child

But it is part of the healing work that I do and that I share with people is

Bringing your adult self your wiser older self to your child and helping them look at a new choice a new way of choosing

Because you know, there’s this Mayan principle that by changing the past we could change the now

because the now is based on the past in terms of the healing potential that we have.

So if we’re locked up into this way of surviving, then we’re not living in the now as it offers us this immeasurably powerful healing energy.

Right? So by going back and holding the hand of the inner child and saying,

okay, how would you have done it differently if you were given another chance?

And a person will say, “Oh, I wouldn’t do it differently. I had to do that.” And that shows

that they’re not ready for healing. By continuing to bring them there, Dr. Janine, by continuing to

ask them, working with them, angles, different questions, they get slewed in their mind, and then

they start to say, “Oh, yeah, yeah, I would do it like this now.” Then that means they’re ready to

be healed now because they could change that. It’s kind of a fascinating principle of healing

and through the mind. Very, very interesting.

JANNINE: I like it. I think I’ve been dabbling in this without knowing exactly what I was dabbling

in because of course we always, you know, we’re trained to go back to like, when did

this come about for you? You know, when did these symptoms start? But then I’ve started

now to take it into what do you think’s going on? And where do you think it’s coming from and

diving into those kind of things? Because it does seem that for a lot of chronic things,

especially the autoimmune, there’s some deep emotional component there that the body’s hanging

onto. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

DR. MOSHE: You know, I think Buddha had this quote. I’m not sure what writing

things it’s from. I just know the quote. Everything is mind. And I understand that in

different ways. I understand one of it to mean every dash thing, everything that is

a thing is mind, because there is something that’s beyond mind. So not everything is

mind because there’s something beyond mind. When the mind is still, there is an experience

of the nature of creation, which is beyond the mind.

So it’s not everything is mind,

but everything that is manifest that you could see,

smell, touch, think and feel is mind.

And so the body is mind too, it’s mind energy.

So when we have a belief, which is the conditionality

of that unconditional nature of the I am,

of that source that’s beyond the mind,

when we have a conditionality that we’re holding onto in our mind, the body reflects that because

the mind has this conditionality. Everything is mind. So it becomes a reflection of that mind.

And then the body holds that holds that in place. Like if, you know, one of the most common belief

systems is I’m not good enough. I’d say eight out of 10 people believe that ultimately in their

core, I’m not good enough. Ergo, I need to try. I need to make the effort. I need to compensate

by having a lot of money. I need to be the CEO of Microsoft. I need this. I need these things

to make me conditionally okay to compensate for this false belief.

But ultimately, the belief is false. So when it’s released, the person can return to a natural state

of being human, which is to be a child of God, existing in this powerful energy field that

heals stuff like that, like that. And the reason why sometimes healing takes a long time, like

months, is because we have one foot on the gas, one foot on the brake. We’re still resisting,

we’re still doing the pattern, you know, we’re trying to let go at the same time as letting go.

It’s an interesting thing being human, but the potential is there for the vital force,

the energies that flow through acupuncture radians, that get absorbed through the chakras.

That energy, when it’s uninhibited by the false mind, immediately restores the body to harmony.

JANNINE: I of course love acupuncture.

Being an acupuncturist, I love all of the subtle things

that help with the balance of the,

you know, just as you’re doing the self work

and this is kind of something I want folks to think about

because I think there is this idea that

if you’re working on the mind,

you’re just working on the mind.

That’s all you’re doing.

DR. MOSHE: Right, right.

JANNINE: And I want folks to know that it’s holistic.

We’re trying to do lots of, you know,

it’s not just mind, it’s not just supplements.

is not just one small tough ball.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, for sure.

Well, I agree with that sentiment.

And I wanna take it into a little bit of

how I understand it as well.

So people have thought mistakenly that holistic means

that you have a problem with the knee,

so you give something for the knee

and you have an emotional issue,

so you take Bach flower remedies

and then mental stuff where you learn meditation.

And it’s all piece mealy.

– Right.

– I see working through the mind actually

as the holistic point around which the body,

the emotions, the mind, everything does coalesce.

So we’re not leaving out the body

by working with the mind.

In fact, when I start with a person

as chronic illness and the body level,

I start asking all about the physical symptoms.

It’s a manifestation where it radiates, you know,

the old cart stuff,

mindset, location, direction, you know,

things that happen with the symptoms,

what makes it better, what makes it worse.

And then through the physical,

I ask questions and the person will start to describe

how they feel with their pathology,

how they feel about their pathology.

And then it starts to sound like they’re not talking

about their, the physical stuff anymore, they’re talking about an issue in their life. So it

goes from the physical into the, the mental emotional, what’s his name? Paul Dr. Paul Epstein,

who’s a big mind body medicine guy, naturopathic elder, calls it by our biography becomes our

biology. I like that. So, you know, natural possible when they take everybody, everybody says is when

they take my program, natural product doctor. So like, yeah, but you still need the supplements,

you still need to address the physical stuff. And I say, no, you don’t. But there are there are

plenty of cases where it’s very helpful and you might actually need to. But the potential by

working through the mind to heal the body is there. That’s there. But in certain cases,

you know, maybe the person’s vital force is so low that they can’t think enough, or they’re so

overwhelmed emotionally that they’re not in a place where their mind can do the work and do the

healing. In that case, we have our toolbox to help those cases where, okay, we’re not quite

there yet. And maybe when the person stabilizes down the road, the vital force kicks in, we stimulate

the vital force through different means, then we could work in helping them understand what they’ve

believed about themselves, what they’ve chosen to believe, which is not true. And I think that

that that’s the most important place to heal because it’s where the person is most empowered.

They’re most, and it has the most potential to invigorate and vitalize the body by those

false beliefs because of core belief.

It’s like right at the reactor, you know, like Captain James T. Kirk, right at the reactor

of the USS Enterprise, right there with that nuclear reactor.

If there’s a false belief in there, it has its most huge impact on the life and the vital

force of the person.

JANNINE: Okay.

Okay.

So, I mean, obviously, the way we think, how we think about ourselves is the catalyst

here.

And if we call it, if we want to get to root cause or someone, you know, we want to go

to that kind of thing.

So using tools like acupuncture, other things,

it’s kind of amplifiers to help.

In that case, that’s how we’re kind of looking at it

or how you’re looking at it.

Makes sense.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

And you know, I love acupuncture too.

I fell in love with acupuncture when I was studied,

but I kind of chose to focus more predominantly

on homeopathy and unfortunately I’ve lost some of my knowledge.

I’m lost if it’s buried in the archives of my memory.

But you know, there’s, what do you call it?

The order of practicing Dr. Jared Zaff

and Pamela Snyder made it.

It’s the, what’s that called?

I’m blanking out now and–

JANNINE: Only thing I’m coming up with is the order to heal.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, it’s the therapeutic order.

JANNINE: There we go, yep, yep.

DR. MOSHE: So the therapeutic order, according to this guy,

Dr. Moshe is that you start with the mind.

You go to the belief systems.

And if the energies are so stuck,

then you move the energies with homeopathy,

with acupuncture, with, you know,

bok-flower remedies, with massage, whatever.

You move the energy.

And if it’s still stuck, then we look for an obstacle to cure.

What is the obstacle?

Then we address that.

So, but I always take the first step

into strictly working with the mind,

with the belief system.

And I will, like, I’ll often, very often have first sessions

with my patients that are very life-changing

and we reveal, the belief is revealed,

the person sees it, they realize they don’t wanna work

and they’re like, no, I don’t wanna live that way.

And I say, okay, you know what?

I might even know a remedy for them.

I won’t give the remedy, I’ll hold off on the remedy

because they have everything that they need to heal.

And I’ll say in a follow up, we’ll see, how are they doing?

Are they 95% better?

Are they 10% better?

Are they zero percent better?

Have they got it, but then they went right back

in their life and then they’re stuck again?

So if they’re stuck and they keep getting stuck,

it happens, right?

Like again, a good doctor goes through hell.

understand how easy it is to get lost in life. So then we can pull out our other tools and

give homey up the and move chi with with acupuncture and etc. etc. So that’s that’s sort of my approach

and not every naturopathic doctor that comes through my training is comfortable with that

approach. They like to use more tools and I I I respect that although as a purist you know

When you, let’s say, for lack of a better word,

when you restrict the treatment,

let’s say you restrict yourself to just one modality,

you get really good at that modality, right?

So if you encounter a little resistance

or a little struggle and you’re like,

okay, we gotta do something else,

you change gears too quickly,

you might lose an opportunity to unlock

at the level of the mind and to really hone your skills

and how to do that.

So that’s just a little thing I like to share,

but I respect ’cause you are a sovereign being.

Every person that comes through my training

is a sovereign being, meaning God lives in them,

aka the vital force, vital healing energy.

And so they are the ones that need to decide

what’s right for the people they’re working with.

So I do emphasize that too,

but also give a little bit of like a stick to the ribs

just to push people a little bit past their comfort zone

to get into working deeply with the mind.

Because it’s more comfortable to give stuff

than it is to work in the mind

’cause it’s a very unknown field.

It’s like a mine field.

The mind is a mine field

and it takes a lot of experience

and a lot of knowing oneself to like work effectively in it.

JANNINE: Yeah, to be comfortable and trust the process because I think for a lot of us, you know,

we want to get results for people, we want to get them fast.

And if it’s not happening, I mean, I’ve been these mistakes for, you know, many times where

we’ll switch out of things probably too soon.

And in chronic illness, let’s let’s be real here.

You know, the longer someone’s had something the more sensitive someone is, the less they

can handle anyway.

And this is where I’m always going to go to the mind is when someone’s body is I call

it is putting the middle finger up to every single thing you try.

DR. MOSHE: Uh hugh, that’s great.

JANNINE: Yeah.

Yeah.

DR. MOSHE: That’s great.

So true.

So, so, so true.

I do appreciate that very much.

Very much.

Yeah.

I think, you know, one of the things I’d like to share that I like to emphasize is this,

I call it the implications for life and the evolution of the soul.

So we have many means of helping a person get better from the most crude suppression of

symptoms, which is not truly getting better, but the symptoms go away.

So you say, oh, they’re better.

But then that vital force, Ms. Tumen is going to then pop its head up in a worse way to,

You know, really good nutrition, good supplementation.

You know, we could do hydrotherapy.

We could do things that reduce inflammation and reduce the manifestation of the symptoms,

but that don’t necessarily address them at the root cause in the mind where the person

is making a choice.

And I don’t want to say there’s anything wrong with that.

There’s just a missed opportunity for that person to understand themselves better and

And to evolve in their very relationship with who they are as a child of the divine.

Because I do believe that what we’re here to do on earth is ultimately to evolve to recognize

who we truly are, which is as children of the Creator, children of the divine.

And an illness is an amazing opportunity, an amazing messenger to understand where we’re

stuck in that evolution.

So yeah, yeah, that’s where I’m coming from.

JANNINE: Yeah, yeah, I think, I mean, I think this is a great way

for folks to really visualize, like,

because a lot of people be like,

it’s not stuck in my head, but it’s, you know, okay,

but what is your body trying to tell you, right?

What are we, what are we working with here?

These symptoms are a sign of something deeper,

they’re a sign of somewhere where you got stuck

in your journey.

And I don’t know if you found this nine times out of 10,

nine times out of 10,

I find that it’s something that someone wanted to do

they didn’t do or some, some type of, you know, I wasn’t good enough and I wanted to do this.

And it was the tipping point or they couldn’t, you know, like thyroid. I mean, if we go back to

Luis Hey, you know, and all of the emotional components of different organs. So, um, you know,

I just want to sum it up for folks in terms of if they’re sitting here thinking like, okay,

I’ve gone to counseling. I’ve gone to, you know, I’ve done EFT tapping. I’ve done, you

know, CBT type of counseling. I’ve done a mushroom. Yeah. Let’s, let’s break it down

in terms of, of, okay, you’ve done all those things. And still, nothing’s changed. We gotta

help on the questions. We gotta get deeper in the questions. Correct?

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, we gotta get deeper in the questions. We gotta get deeper into understanding what

our problem really is. And that could take a long time. Because human beings are complex

and we’re like onions. We’ve got lots of layers. And so we start with where we’re suffering

is the most, at least in the moment, superficial layer. So we find out, okay, we get to the

bottom of that through really honest integrity, like honest asking ourselves questions.

You know, Buddha again said, I’m not a Buddhist or anything, I just really appreciate that a lot

of the teachings of Buddhism. Buddha said that person has to be willing to gnaw themselves to

the bone. So you have to be brutally honest with oneself, willing to see whatever it is,

and go through that horribly painful cognitive dissonance to recognize where the ego is unnecessarily

doing something that’s really not good for us. So we go through these layers, we got to get as

as deep as we can.

And I am able to help somebody in one session

to get right to that core level.

It doesn’t happen all the time,

but I would say it happens most of the time.

So the V-style log is because of the way it’s set up.

It’s more effective than cognitive behavior therapy, CBT.

It’s more effective than just tapping.

It’s because it’s getting right to the root

so that the person can see what their conscious mind

and not be told through counseling,

because a lot of counseling is advice-based,

or, oh, you fall into this archetype,

therefore you need to do this and this and this and this.

So you’re taking the word of somebody

versus seeing for yourself

where your problem lies.

JANNINE: Right.

DR. MOSHE: Once you see that there’s no going back,

like you, it’s life-changing,

and it’s, I think it’s the most effective way

It helps someone in this modality,

in this realm of mental emotional healing.

Also, or like Louis C. K says, “But,”

I’m sorry, do you know what I mean?

Like by Louis C. K says, “Yeah, he’s so fine.”

So a person can learn what their belief system is,

but there could be a lot of attachments to it.

And I call these tendrils.

So we could get to the belief in the first session

and it could take many sessions to remove

all of the attachments to it, all the tendrils.

And so it is like a battle.

You know, it’s a battle between our true nature

and our false nature, our soul spirit truth

and our ego false personas, masks that we wear.

And so it’s just a matter of dedication and devotion.

I think each of us has to at some point say, that’s it.

I’m putting my foot down.

I don’t need to be perfect.

I give myself the leeway to make mistakes,

but I commit to truth.

I commit 100% to truth.

Doesn’t mean I have to be perfect.

But that commitment really helps to accelerate a person through their healing to get to the root

versus this sort of, you know, leeway that we give ourselves to go into forgetting

and suppression and like, you know, drinking or eating away our stuff and just, you know what I mean?

Like, I know from myself before I made that commitment, I would give myself, you know, carte blanche freedom to just go and

and stick my head in the sand for a while.

It’s okay to rest and have fun

and to have entertainment, no problem.

But to never turn one’s back on one’s true nature,

that I would recommend a commitment to that

because the earth is filled with lots of challenges.

And if one is choosing to sort of half in half out,

we can easily get swayed

and get a lot of gunk on us, then we’re going to have to just get off again.

And then Mark Gung comes on, we have to get it off again versus the energy that it takes

to drill down into the subconscious and to release ourself at the depths.

It takes perseverance.

It takes energy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

JANNINE: Yeah, it definitely does.

There’s work involved.

And I think, you know, we have to get to that realization that we do have to put in the work.

How?

How long is your initial visit?

just out of curiosity with someone.

How long would that be?

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, it runs about 90 minutes

and sometimes up to two hours.

JANNINE: Okay.

DR. MOSHE: Sometimes it’s a little less,

like if we really hit the spot

and the person is just like really in a place of peace,

I don’t want, I like them to do too much more chat,

too much New York cortex, you know, conscious mind stuff.

I like them to just sit there so it might be a little less.

Yeah.

JANNINE: Gotcha. And then with with multiple tendrils, I think a lot of folks might be thinking, okay,

now how how long on average do folks work with you? And can they, you know, work with you or

someone who’s been trained by you? Can they work with them for kind of an extended period,

just to like maintenance mode, if you if you. 

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, yeah, sure. And stuff comes up, you know,

new eyes arise and you might be really upset about it. Like something happens with your child

or somebody says something to you. You want to work through it. Yes, you can do that. Also,

we can look at if somebody has a particular chief complaint. One of the things I’ll start with

them on the chief complaint. And then what I love to hear is when they start complaining about other

of things. Because that means that the chief could play this resolving, right? Like it’s

not on the phone or anymore. That’s a great sign. So it could be anywhere from one or

a few short, a few sessions, maybe two, three, to years. It depends on the person depends,

like you said, how long they’ve been sick for. It depends on how deeply ingrained they,

beliefs are. And it also depends on

Tensity and severity of their suffering when they grew up

because some people suffering is just unfathomably difficult and

The wound is so

deeply embedded

That it takes it takes time

It really does take one level at a time and we really need to gain ground and not lose ground

Because like let’s say you know in a battle if you gain ground you don’t want to give up the ground

You’ve gained you want to you want to integrate that and and make sure it’s it’s because it becomes a

Stepping stone for the next deep level level

So yeah, so it could take years. I have patience. I’m still working with and we’re making we’re always making headway always

but the big hurrah

release of the vital force and the resolution of the physical symptoms hasn’t happened. Like,

for instance, in multiple sclerosis. Like, that’s a doozy of an illness. And I actually developed a

theory around that a person develops an illness which is resonant with the degree of severity of

of their belief system.

So if they have a very, very intensely embedded

or very suppressed emotion,

they’ll manifest a much more difficult illness.

The illnesses that we consider very, very chronic

or incurable.

And if a person’s wound is more superficial,

then they’ll manifest a chronic illness,

which is a mirror of that

and therefore can resolve more easily and more readily.

JANNINE: That makes sense.

That makes sense just in the trajectory.

I’m thinking about certain clients right now.

I’m like, yeah, that makes perfect sense.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, yeah, that’s cool.

That’s cool.

I’m glad it does.

Yeah, I’m glad it does.

JANNINE: I think at this point, we’ve got to tell folks

how they can get in touch with you.

DR. MOSHE: Sure.

JANNINE: I’ve heard that also you said that you don’t necessarily

have to be a naturopath.

You can be a different type of practitioner.

you could be a layperson who understands the concept and wants to learn more.

And part of me is kind of thinking even about, you know, perhaps folks who are in a counseling,

not a counselor, but they are in a religious group and helping folks, you know, in terms

of what it may be.

That’s kind of how I thought in my head, I’m like, oh, this could be really cool for someone

who’s kind of a pastor trying to work through some things too.

DR. MOSHE: Oh, 100%.

You know, I’ve even taught like doulas and midwives

because if they’re sitting with their clients,

the pregnant ladies and they’re gonna be going into labor,

the beliefs that they have that they carry

about being a mom, going through labor,

what’s going on with their partners,

it is so vital to the actual birthing process.

So that’s another example of people

that really benefit from it.

people that are working with psychedelics,

this really dovetails beautifully with psychedelics

because if you’re working to facilitate

people’s healing, you know how to ask the questions,

can really accelerate that change.

So yeah, so I have two offerings.

One is for my own personal healing.

Like you just have an issue,

you wanna come and work with me on it.

So you could just see me at doctor, DR, dash,

like minus sign, Moshe, M-O-S-H-E.com.

And then if you wanna train,

and when you train, you actually also get the same amount

of sessions with me, you get six sessions

of the personal physician heal myself,

we call it, or heal or heal or heal myself.

And then you get three courses

and you get a mentoring for how to do the V-style,

I get six of those sessions.

And that would be at holistic H-O-L-I-S-T-I-C-Dash again,

like a minus sign, counseling with 1L.

So it’s C-O-U-N-S-E-L-I-N-G dot C-A.

And that’s the one year certification program

in the V-style log.

So those are my two offerings.

And yeah, thanks so much for that opportunity to share,

I really appreciate it. That’s great.

JANNINE: My pleasure. I am all in on really awakening folks to taking back their own power when

it comes to their health and really being able to look within because, you know, we have

so much social media. We have so many experts in their amazing programs.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah.

Yeah.

JANNINE: I never chose to do an end of my program

because I never felt that it was going to be,

you know, I tried, I dabbled, right?

And I was like, I just can’t do this

’cause I don’t believe in it.

I don’t believe in it.

Everyone’s individual.

And so stuff like that, you know,

programs like yours are very aligned with the way

I’m looking at how health is really.

DR. MOSHE: I love that.

I love what you’re saying.

It’s so true.

when a person heals themselves by means of making better choices into reality,

which is really just aligning with who they really are.

It’s letting go of the conditionalities of their mind,

and it’s acquiescing or falling into the unconditional nature of their true self.

It’s like the most empowering wave,

because a person then has no doubt

that the source of all is inside of themselves.

So they don’t need anything.

And they become truth self thinkers.

They think for themselves,

something that is very vital and lacking on our planet

and that causes problems, you know,

when people don’t think for themselves.

JANNINE: Oh boy, we could do a whole podcast on that one.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, for sure, for sure.

JANNINE: For sure.

DR. MOSHE: I do feel a lot of good positive movement of energy happening.

There’s still challenges to be faced individually

for ourselves and collectively,

but I think we’re humanities heading in a good direction.

I have hope for humanity.

JANNINE: Me too.

Me too.

That’s why we’re putting,

that’s why I wanna put this out

and keep working hard on it so that everybody,

you know, that’s open to it,

can get the chance to really stuff in their own power.

DR. MOSHE: Yeah, absolutely.

Good stuff, amen.

JANNINE: Yes. (laughs)

– Thanks again.

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