Ep 498: Pondering Life After Retirement With Ron Pevny

Have you been saying or thinking…“when I retire I’m going to do ….”?  But what happens when you’ve completed your bucket list or things don’t go exactly as planned?  Ron Pevny, MA has been dedicated to assisting people in negotiating life transitions as they create lives of purpose and passion for 45 years.  He is the author of CONSCIOUS LIVING, CONSCIOUS AGING and the founding director of the Center for Conscious Eldering, based in Colorado – which for twenty years has presented workshops and retreats across North America to support people in bringing purpose, growth, and commitment to service to their elder years.  On this episode of The Health Fix Podcast, Dr. Jannine Krause interviews Ron Pevny how he’s helping inspire people to create a purposeful life that aligns with who you truly are in your older years.

Resources From The Show:

• Center for Conscious Eldering
• Ron’s Book “Conscious living, Conscious Aging”

Our Partners

Podcast Transcript

2:52 – Thriving in your older years

5:01 – How has societies view of elders changed through the years?

9:51 – Conscious eldering and purposeful aging

11:41 – The feeling of losing control of the direction life

14:38 – “Suffering loss is an opportunity to grow inward”

18:31 – “Change begins in the fringe”

21:32 – What is a Center For Conscious Eldering retreat like?

23:20 – The 5 pillars explored

27:21 – Stories of personal growth

33:13 – Ron’s book vs a retreat

38:87 – Are there any prerequisite’s for going to a retreat at Conscious Eldering?

47:04 – Transforming aging summits

51:44 – Where to find Ron and his book / bookshop.org / centerforconsciouseldering.com

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[Intro] Hey, health junkies, have you been thinking or saying when I retire, I’m going to do xyz.

No matter what age you are, you’re probably thinking about retirement at some point or you’ve thought about it, and what that looks like.

Now, this episode, we’re gonna dive deep into… do you have to retire anyway?

What does retirement really look like?

And one of the biggies, are you living your life for someone else?

Are you living it out of habit?

Or are you living it in terms of what’s true for you?

Something big to be thinking about.

So in this episode, I’m actually going to interview Ron Pevny.

He’s talking all about creating an amazing purposeful life in your older years.

Now, I guess you could say he’s laying the groundwork for after work life

and what that looks like, who you are, what’s your purpose. Ron has been dedicated to assisting

people in negotiating life’s transitions as they create lives of purpose for 45 years.

So I think he’s got a little experience. He is the author of Conscious Living, Conscious Aging,

and he’s the founder of the Center for Conscious Eldering, which is based in Colorado. And for 20

years he and his team have been presenting workshops and retreats across North America

to support people in bringing themselves to their purpose, growth, and creating a commitment

to serve others in their elder years. Ron brings up so many things that I’ve only started to think

about being in my midlife at this point and really the closer I get to retirement age I do think like

Hmm, what am I gonna do? Do I really want to retire?

I have found that the folks who stay busy tend to live longer. So, nevertheless, something to ponder.

What are you gonna do once you retire? Or are you even gonna retire?

JANNINE: Let’s introduce you to Ron Pevny. Hey, health junkies! I have Ron Pevny on today,

and we’re going to be talking about not only conscious living, but conscious aging,

which is a concept I have to admit a lot of folks might not have been introduced to.

So I’m really excited to talk about that, but more than anything, Ron, welcome to HealthFix Podcast.

RON: Well, thank you, Janine. It’s an honor to be with you today.

JANNINE: Well, I’m certainly excited to talk about conscious aldering because, you know, we think about getting

older. We see what society kind of portrays out there. We see the commercials on TV of all the

pharmaceutical medications and things of that nature. And I know that there are a lot of people

that are looking at that going, that doesn’t align with my mission for getting older.

And I’m guessing when you founded the Center for Conscious Eldering back in 2010, you were

thinking the same thing. There’s so much more to getting older.

RON: There is indeed, there is so much more. We live in a world, Jannine, that does not have

a role and certainly not an honored role for older adults. And throughout most of history,

older adults have had an honored role, the role of elder in their societies.

But we don’t know what to do with our older people. And oftentimes, mostly what we hear about older

people, it’s almost like age is seen as a disease and older people are seen as a drain on the economy,

taking the job, young people might have.

And so many people do not have a vision of what an empowering

later part of their life can look like.

There’s no vision at all.

And so people just kind of live day to day,

seeking as much pleasure as they can,

looking for whatever security they could find

and trying to fill the hours.

And for a lot of people, as you said,

that is not satisfying.

That’s not fulfilling. People are looking for more. So the kind of people who are interested in my work and many other people helping to promote a positive new vision of aging.

These people who are looking for more come to us seeking a vision for how they can feel relevant and how they can thrive rather than just.

I like to think of growing into wholeness rather than just growing old.

And so that’s the work that I’m committed to and have been for a long time.

JANNINE: Yeah, 40, 45 years of assisting people in negotiating life transitions is what I have

here.

And I had to clarify with you because I was like 45 years of the Center for a conscious

altering, but I got it straight.

So you know, I’m guessing with 45 years of experience, you’ve seen a lot of transition

in society’s view of elders. What would you do you think it’s gotten worse? Do you think it’s

gotten better since you started out? What would you say? 

RON: You know, I think that

in the last 45 years anyway, I think things have gradually begun to get better. But we’re so far,

We’re so far from getting where we can be.

Ageism is still pervasive and I don’t just mean ageism out there.

I’m talking about the ageism that so many of us have internalized from the time we were little.

I think what’s positive is that I know when I was a child and a teenager and as my parents were

aging. There was a retire, but and then there was there was the equivalent of sitting on the porch

or puttering around the house. That’s a common word, putter. If you’re old, you putter.

JANNINE: Yes.

RON: You know, perhaps engaging in a hobby like my dad did and my mother had a hobby,

But that was about it. What has changed, especially I think in the last 20 or 25 years, is there’s a whole

set of, I guess you might say, aging philosophies that are reaching a whole lot of people. And many

people lump them all together and just call it the positive aging movement. But you know, people

people now recognize that our lifestyle can help us to be healthier for a long time.

People now recognize that, “Hey, we can be active, we can be engaged, we can be doing

all kinds of things.

This idea of just sitting around and puttering doesn’t suit us.

There’s a lot more that’s possible.”

People are, there are all kinds of efforts at community.

There’s senior co-housing.

They’re all kinds of things now that are helping older people have a more vibrant life.

And that’s all wonderful.

I think what we do with conscious eldering is we add a piece that is missing from a lot

of the positive aging and the active aging and the healthy aging and these other approaches.

We have a strong focus on not just what you can do as you age, but who you can be.

A focus on growth.

A focus on aging has an opportunity to grow and to serve and to actually have a role to

aspire to.

And the reason we call it the Center for Conscious Eldering is Eldering is a process, as I see it,

for intentionally working toward growing into that life stage that we all have the potential for

of elderhood. And I believe that elderhood is indeed a distinct life stage. It’s different from midlife.

It’s been a life stage, it’s been honored in societies around the world up until maybe

in the industrial revolution. And it’s something that we have the opportunity to grow into,

but it takes intention. It takes focus. You’re not just going to drift into bringing forth all

those qualities that comprise an elder. You have to work at that, or at least most of us have to

work of that. And so our work is to help people to see the potential for growth, personal growth,

the emotional growth, spiritual growth as the age, while they be as active as they feel called to be,

while they are engaged as they feel called to be. But the main focus is on bringing forth the

elder within, which is a precious opportunity and a precious the final stage in our lives.

JANNINE: It’s fascinating to me to think about it because I’m in a stage where a lot of folks are working

on growth personally now at this stage midlife, but thinking further and what things look like

in your next transition, because I think a lot of us think like we get older and then it’s done.

Like we don’t grow, we stop growing.

So this is a beautiful way to start thinking about what does the next transition?

What is my purpose?

Because I think at least what I’ve seen in a lot of my older patients, my father included,

my dad’s 87, or actually he’s 88 now, he feels like he’s lost his purpose.

And this sounds like you’re reawakening purposes and folks.

RON: Yeah, and I think perhaps if we needed to find a synonym for the term conscious eldering,

a good synonym would be purposeful aging. Purposeful aging. And you know, working in the medical

field, you know how important purpose is to one sense of well-being. Purpose isn’t just, you know,

a nice thing to have. Oh, wouldn’t it be great if I had a purpose? But there is so much research now

that backs up wisdom from the world’s wisdom traditions that have been there forever, that says

that having a sense of purpose, a reason for getting up in the morning that’s bigger than just

yourself, is vital for physical well-being. And so much research is showing that having a strong

sense of purpose greatly diminishes the chances of getting Alzheimer’s and other dementia.

Every day there are new studies that show how important purpose is.

And so I think the work that we do is to really support people and encourage people in finding

purpose in their elder years.

JANNINE: I find it fascinating that a lot of us, and myself included, I think, too here, we don’t

really tap into the fact that we have unique capabilities, right?

We have unique skills and maybe they didn’t come out while we were working

or in our career, but we can utilize them.

We have the choice to utilize them.

I almost feel like sometimes we don’t feel in control of our own lives.

Do you find that with a lot of the folks that come to work with you?

RON: Yeah, we do indeed.

And I think for so many people, um,

In their mind, the unique skills and hopefully wisdom that they have gained throughout their

lives up to the point of retirement, for so many people, those somehow get retired as

you retire.

And yet they don’t need to be retired.

And one of the gifts of retirement, for those who choose it, and I think everybody’s listening

to your show knows that retirement, it’s hard to even define it anymore. It looks like so

many different things for so many different people. But retirement provides the freedom

for many people to be able to find other expressions of their gifts, to be able to remember what

But in them brings them most alive that perhaps they didn’t have the freedom to really pursue

very much either through their work or through whatever when they were younger, but now they’ve

got the freedom.

And so to get in touch with what brings you alive and then to use that in service to your

own well-being and in service to the world around you, which I think is critical.

That’s always defined the role of elder service to the community.

be able to do that is an incredible gift of retirement. You first have to get past all

the, I think, internalized ideas that somehow our purpose and our meaning and our relevance

and the day we retire. And that’s internalizing that’s strong in a whole lot of people. And

But even people who read books like my book, Conscious Living, Conscious Aging, who go to

retreats, who are committed to their growth, even them have internalized a whole lot of

disempowering ideas.

You can’t help it.

From the day you’re a child, these ideas are all around you.

We really have to work hard to transform and move beyond these internalized ideas that

limit us as we age. And I, I, that’s going to add one thing. I don’t want to, um,

somehow communicate as I think sometimes, uh, I hear among people who work in this field that

aging is all a bit of roses. And that after retirement, you know, you can go and do all these

incredible things and live passionately and be of service. And, um, and, and you’re going to be

feeling great and you’re going to be strong until the day you die. And that’s a reality,

I believe, that no matter what we do, even though it’s important to take care of ourselves

and in all the ways we can, we’re going to suffer losses. We’re going to suffer diminishments as we

age. But as we suffer certain losses and diminishments, it’s like there’s a potential for our inner

life to grow. It’s almost like a compensation. We lose something here. But here’s a chance for

us to grow inwardly in so many ways. And that’s one of the real gifts of elderhood, I believe.

JANNINE: Oh my gosh. It’s profound how much you can, you know, if you choose that route, right,

to grow from a loss. I mean, I’ve seen two different directions, right, when say someone loses their

significant other, you know, there’s either the downward spiral or there’s the new person

that emerges. And it’s such a beautiful thing to see. Now, with folks that come to your center

or or folks that have commented from reading your book, have have folks kind of given you like a

synopsis or I guess maybe what I would say is like in general, do you feel that most of the issue

is internal more than the external in terms of where folks find themselves stuck after a certain

point in life. 

RON: No, I don’t think you can say most of it’s internal or you can say most external,

there’s are both very, very powerful forces. Okay.

because there are a lot of people who have in many ways come free from a lot of the stereotypical

disempowering ideas, but they look around them and they don’t see any kind of a role for older adults.

They don’t see a role of elders being honored. They see all this,

the many different flavors of ageism and they can get incredibly discouraging people come to our retreats

and they leave a retreat with a sense of purpose and yeah this is how I want to appear in the world

but it is hard as heck to find opportunities it’s hard to find others who think the way that they think

and so it can be an incredible challenge there and that’s why I believe it is so important and

and my passion and my calling and that of many others

is to slowly but surely help to bring the role of elder

back to a role of honor and respect.

And as that happens,

and more and more opportunities are going to arise

for people to really in their own unique way

embody elderhood.

And as we see more and more older people

living with purpose and meaning.

Then they are setting an incredible example.

They’re modeling for the younger generation

towards possible.

So the younger people, see older people,

and they just don’t see somebody who’s just sitting around

with nothing to do except play pickleball all day.

I’m not putting down pickleball,

but they see people who are truly thriving

and trying to make a difference in their community.

And the younger people are not gonna then

internalize all the same negative stereotypes.

And so gradually we have to shift to a culture

of people who are aging consciously

and who are owning the role of elder

and slowly but surely I believe

we’re going to make societal shifts.

But this particular point, the kind of work that I do

and people who think like me.

And it’s on the fringe.

I’m certainly not pretending it’s mainstream,

but I think we all know that things change begins

in the fringe and there are tipping points.

And if enough people in the fringe

are biting away at a dominant paradigm,

all of a sudden one day you find that,

whoa, something big has changed.

We’ve seen that in a lot of things culturally

in our world. And I think that can be and hopefully is the path that we’re taking when

we think about aging.

JANNINE: Yeah, I certainly hope so. I certainly hope so. Now, of course, you’ve got me curious.

You’ve got boat, you’ve got retreats, you also have the center is help me understand

with the center for conscious elders. Is it all retreats or can folks come on a weekly

basis, daily basis. Give us a little more scoop about what’s going on there in Colorado.

RON: Okay. Well, the Center for Conscious Eldering is not a physical place.

Aha. Okay. Okay. So if you come to visit me, you’re not becoming to a wonderful retreat,

center. I’ve had dreams throughout my life of having a physical Sender and for a lot of reasons,

is just never, never coalesced to happen. So the Center for Conscious Eldering is myself and three

or four talented, equally passionate colleagues who offer week-long, choosing Conscious Elderhood

retreats around the country and we’re beginning to offer some in Europe. I’m going to do the

our second one in Ireland in September and we offer shorter weekend workshops, some of which

we organize and orchestrate, but most of which happen when an organization invites us to come

and offer a weekend retreat for them. And then we all do some writing. I’m the one who has written

the book, “Conscious Living, Conscious Aging,” and talk to people like you on podcasts and things.

And that is what the Center for Conscious Eldering is.

JANNINE: Okay. 

RON: And if any of your listeners have the good fortune to have the financial well-being

that they’d like to support a physical center, I would love to talk to them.

JANNINE: I can imagine. I can imagine. I mean, in my mind, I was thinking, okay, you’re in Colorado

so you’re in a beautiful place to host something of that nature. Now, I know it’s not, it’s

easier said than done, of course. Now, of course, I’m also curious though, and I know

a lot of listeners are probably like, okay, okay Ron, so I come to one of your retreats. We go to

Europe, we go to Ireland with you. What kind of things are we going to learn? How are we going

to start? Take us through the process of what we’re going to experience.

RON: Well, if you come to one of our week long choosing conscious elderhood retreats,

and by the way, I just might add that the place that we have done the most and that people

oftentimes associate us with is Ghost Ranch New Mexico.

Georgia O’Keefe made it famous.

It’s an incredible retreat center.

We’ve done 23 week long retreats there over about 15 years.

If you come on one of our retreats,

you’re going to find an environment where as much as

possible is done outdoors in beautiful natural settings.

Because as you and I and I’m sure most of your listeners know,

There’s something about the natural world that opens our hearts and our minds that you just can’t do when you’re indoors in a

hotel room or a church basement or something like that.

You’re going to

find

that you’re in an atmosphere where there is a huge amount of sharing

among the participants and our retreats usually have no more than 13 or 14 participants and two guides and

and we learn a lot from each other.

And I’ll tell you, the depth of sharing that happens

in these retreats is absolutely incredible

and we have a structure we’ve refined over the years

and I think we’re really good at helping people

to feel comfortable in sharing authentically

and honestly and deeply quickly.

We’re going to explore what I consider the

consider the five pillars of conscious

eldering. And we have a lot of

experiential ways and practices to

explore them. And just briefly I’ll say

that the five pillars are the first one

is the power of our beliefs in shaping

how we age. The second one is the

importance of reviewing and coming to

terms with our past, with who we’ve been up to now, healing what needs to be healed, letting

go what needs to be let go so that we can move forward into a new life chapter. The third pillar is

purpose, the importance of purpose and how we find a sense of purpose that I believe is

deeply embedded in each of us, but a great many of us need help in getting in touch with it,

and how to live intentionally and purposefully. The fourth pillar that we explore is community,

and we explore that by the kind of community that we form together so people experience it,

and what we share with each other about what we know about how to find other like-minded people,

other kindred spirits to help support our visions for our aging. And the fifth pillar is an ever

deepening commitment to our spirituality. And we don’t we don’t teach some kind of a dogma,

we’re not some kind of a religion. But it’s understood that getting in touch with whatever

that deep spiritual dimension is in each of us that’s bigger than just our personality and our ego

is vital to our well-being, especially as we age.

It’s a source of our vision, the source of our healing.

And so in various ways, we explore those five themes.

As I say, we spend a lot of time outdoors.

We share lots of poetry that everybody brings,

poetry that is inspirational to them.

We have ceremony and ritual.

We have a drumming circle every morning

to build the energy and to help shift us

into that intuitive heart-centered mode is we don’t want to just be over there just philosophizing,

we want to be coming from the heart. We have an evening of storytelling where everybody tells

a story about one of the most important growth experiences of their life and what they learned

from it. A fire ceremony to help support people and letting go of some of that that it’s time to

to let go of now.

And we have a day, sunrise to sunset of solitude

on the land.

And we give people lots of preparation

to help them be safe and to help them know how to best

use that precious time to do whatever the inner work is

that feels most important to them at this particular point.

And being on the land in solitude in an incredible place

like Ghost Ranch or wherever we do these retreats is,

I mean, like wow, how often do people have a chance

to do something like that?

And so that’s, it takes place over seven days.

It’s a very immersive experience.

Most people say that it’s the deepest experience

of community they’ve ever had in their lives.

And most people leave with a commitment to doing all they can

to move forward into

to move forward on their journey toward elderhood.

So that’s what we do, I love doing it.

It brings me alive, that’s one of the reasons I do it.

I’m more alive doing this than anything else I do.

JANNINE: Well, I mean, it makes sense, it’s beautiful.

It sounds like an amazing experience.

And what I’m thinking about is, okay, after folks leave,

I’m guessing you guys have a way to connect with folks

to hear stories.

Would you mind sharing some of the fascinating stories

you’ve had of growth and even what folks have developed

in terms of programs beyond leaving Go! Strange?

Or any retreat I should say.

RON: Yeah.

Well, I’ll begin by saying that that question

is so important because I think a lot of people

and maybe a lot of your listeners

have gone to retreats and things where you go

when you get incredibly inspired,

you know, and everything about the setting

and the way we do what we do inspires people deeply.

And you think, oh my God, I’m gonna go home

and I’m gonna be living this way forever.

And you realize at the moment you get home

and you’re confronted with everyday life

that all of a sudden that state of consciousness fades quickly.

So what’s critical?

And we spend a lot of time, especially

in the final couple of days of our retreats,

focused on when the high fades.

How do you keep alive what was most important,

what touched you the most deeply,

what made some kind of a difference in this experience?

How do you keep that alive when you get back home?

One way that we support that is that after a retreat,

we have a two-hour Zoom call about a month after the retreat

where people have a chance to begin to share,

what’s it like trying to take this home? What am I doing with it? And then we encourage, even though

we’re not in a position to sponsor or orchestrate, that we encourage, and it usually happens,

the group, or at least most of the group, to come together kind of a self-led type of situation.

And many of them come together about once a month to continue to support each other in community.

And this usually lasts for, well, this isn’t usually last for a year, maybe more than a year.

Ultimately, though, I don’t think any kind of a Zoom community is going to have the longevity

as what people really most need is to find community where they live. Find some kindred spirits,

whether it’s one or two people or whether it’s larger numbers that can support each other on this

challenging and rich journey into a conscious elderhood. I think one thing that a lot of people do

do when they get home is they indeed try to find community and oftentimes they’ll find

a, might call it a conscious aging buddy or two or three buddies, somebody that can support

their intentions and they can support this other person and through that support they

they can keep moving forward on their journey of growth.

Some people all of a sudden find that the poet

or the writer that’s been in them,

all of a sudden starts to come alive.

They experience sparks of that on the retreat.

A lot of people come home and they say,

yeah, I now have at least the beginnings of a real sense

of what the gifts are that I can give my community.

And then they make a concerted effort to look for opportunities in the community.

Or sometimes they have to start and create opportunities to give their particular gifts to the community.

Many people are reminded on these retreats of how vital their relationship is to the Earth and to the planet.

And they see what’s happening to the planet.

And many people choose to get involved

in some type of ecological activism,

or some kind of social activism,

or something where they can help make a difference,

because they recognize that the wellbeing

of the larger whole and the wellbeing of each of us

is totally interconnected.

You cannot separate them.

There’s so many ways that people use the experience.

And I’ll be honest, I think there’s some people

that get home and maybe can’t find the support

and perhaps they end up losing the omf

and losing the zest and losing the zeal.

And for those kind of people,

oftentimes just coming to another retreat,

whether it’s with us or something else

that touches into some of the same things.

or maybe even just slowly and mindfully reading a really good book like mine or some of the

others, can all of a sudden help to reignite the spark for people.

So I wish I was in a position to be, I guess, more aware of each individual and the impact

the experiences had on them.

But retreat leaders just don’t have them.

Don’t have the wherewithal to have that awareness.

But I do the best I can and I love what I see generally.

JANNINE: Well, you know, I mean, it’s hard, right?

It’s hard when you’re working with people’s emotions, people’s,

you know, level of, of get up and go.

Let’s call it that.

Um, and, and sometimes, you know, we get the oomph and then, then it fades.

And, you know, this is where I was going to ask about the book as a

book a great way to reignite or is it a great way to ignite? Is it both ends? How do you see the book

fitting in for folks? Is it an inspiration piece or more of how to give us a little bit of background

on your book compared to what experience someone might have in the retreat? For example?

RON: Yeah. Now the short answer is all the above. I suppose you’d like a little more of an answer

than that. We lead people through a week-long process on these retreats. You know, I talked

about some of the major things we focus on, but the whole process is very much, it follows the

dynamics that have characterized rights of passage around the world forever. And I know, and I’ve

I’ve had the privilege to study with people

who their passion has been coming to know

and understand rights of passage around the world.

You know, those ceremonial processes,

societies have used forever to help people move

through major life transitions.

And so we structure our retreats

to incorporate the dynamics that are common

to rights of passage around the world.

and the flow.

And moving from the first third of the retreat,

really focusing on looking at our past

and what needs to be healed, what needs to be let go,

what wisdom we’ve gained

that we really need to take forward,

a focus on the past.

And then it all writes a passage,

as is the case in our retreats,

there is an in-between phase of indeterminate length,

often called the neutral zone,

sometimes it’s called liminal space,

where we’re not who we have been.

We don’t know who we’re becoming

and we can feel lost and adrift.

But that’s a space that is ripe and full of potential

if we allow ourselves to be in that space,

endure the discomfort of it,

and use whatever means we have to get in touch

with our inner guidance, our inner knowing during that time.

so we can get some glimpses of what wants to emerge next.

And then gradually there’s the emergence of the vision

and the guidance and that feeling within that,

“Hey, I’m ready now to move into a new chapter

“as a different person.”

Something in me has changed because any major life transition

has the potential to change us.

That’s why we go through it.

So we somehow become a different person

who has grown bigger than we were before.

So that’s the process of all rights of passage.

Our retreats are structured that way.

So when I envisioned writing this book,

I thought, what if I could create a book

that people could read and write it in such a way

and use language in such a way and stories in such a way

and everything, that people can almost feel that they were out there, for instance, in

the desert at Ghost Ranch, as a release chapter, and they engage with some of the practices

we suggest.

And it’s not a page-turner type of book.

It’s one that you work with slowly as a reflective workbook, and you work your way through this

whole process in the same way you would if you were on one of our retreats.

And so I think for a lot of people who for whatever reason are not ever going to come

on one of our retreats, they can engage with a lot of that whole process by slowly working

their way through the book.

And then one thing I’ve included that I think it makes it unique and a lot of people really

like about my book, every chapter, every, you know, which every chapter has a theme,

Every chapter closes with what I call a story by the fire.

And the story by the fire of every chapter was written by somebody who’s been on one

of our retreats over the years, where I remembered they had a really profound experience and

I asked them to write a couple pages about their particular experience on the retreat,

on the land related to that particular theme.

And so it’s not just me sharing whatever wisdom I have in the book, but it’s all these wonderful

stories that people can relate to, just other people like them who experience this.

And these are some of the experiences they had as they went through this process.

So anyway, that’s in a nutshell, a big nutshell, I guess that’s what my book does for people

and what it’s about.

JANNINE: Oh, I like workbook style books because it inspires you to take action, right?

RON: Yeah.

Yes.

JANNINE: It’s stories.

I think that that’s awesome because it’s going to give some some inspiration because

I think right at this stage for a lot of people, they’re, they’re kind of running

out of inspiration and looking forward and going, Oh, no, you know, what, what do I

have next to look for?

So of course I’ve got to ask in terms of folks that this would best be suited for,

because I’m thinking, gosh, I want to come hang out.

Am I too young?

Is there a, and I don’t want to put age into it per se, but I’m like,

what kind of thought process would be a perfect person who’s listening to this right now and going,

Ron, this sounds fascinating.

I want to dive in.

What would be a prerequisite for someone to grab the book

and to consider looking at some of your retreats?

RON: Well, I think a prerequisite for reading the book

coming on a retreat, or even resonating in any way

with the whole concept of conscious eldering,

is an understanding of and appreciation of our lives as being a process of growth.

And, you know, some of us who are really committed to growth, as you and I, and I imagine most of

your listeners are, they can appreciate that. But you’d be surprised how many people do not have

any concept of what growth is, what personal growth is. And so as they go through any of

life’s major changes, they’re not able to consciously see the potential for growth there. They just

kind of, you know, somehow drift through the change and hopefully they do a little growing.

As they view their elderhood, they cannot relate to conscious eldering because conscious elderings

about a commitment to continually growing. And if you don’t understand that and resonate

with that, then why are you going to put your energy into exploring something like this?

It is totally grounded in growth. So that’s a prerequisite. Most of the people who come

on our retreats and from what I hear who read my book probably are between 55 and 80. But

we certainly don’t have an age prerequisites. And you know something I’m oftentimes asked

and I heard that in your question. Well, if you’re just in quote, quote middle age,

you’re too young is this stuff just not relevant to you until you’re about to retire. And I would

say no, you’re not too young. I mean, think about how many people you know probably. And I know

who when they’re 10, 15 years of retirement, they’re already over there talking about, boy,

when I retire, I’m going to do this and I retire from I’m going to do that. They’re already, you

know, and they’re looking at their financial well-being and everything, you know, meeting with their

financial advisors, you know, maybe when they’re even in their 20s, they’re planning for their

life later on. And I ask why isn’t it equally important to be planning on and thinking about

after I retire if I retire? What am I retiring to? That’s just what I’m retiring from. What am I

retiring to? What might it look like? What do I have to do besides trying to take care of my

financial security. What do I have to do to prepare myself so that the day that I leave my work,

or at least soon after I leave my work, I can have meaning and purpose? Is it going to be enough

for me just to focus every day on filling the hours and getting in as much play as I can?

Or am I really going to feel a need to somehow be serving using my newfound freedom to be serving

my community? And so how might I start to lay the groundwork for doing something like that?

And another one other important piece, I think so much of the we haven’t got into this yet,

Jannine, but so much of conscious

eldering is about becoming

increasingly aware of when we are

living out of habit and when we are

living out of a sense of our own

inner truth. What’s true for us? What

decisions? What visions come from

what’s most genuine in us and not

what we’ve been taught by our

society or the world around us. And there’s all kinds of habits, and we’re all creatures of habit

in so many ways. So if we’re going to live more aware and consciously and less out of habit,

it takes a long time to begin to change old habits. And so if we can begin in midlife to be

taking a look at what are some of the habitual ways that we live our lives, that we react to things,

that we think about things, habitual ways that we’re just kind of almost caught in.

And how can we begin to maybe in midlife move beyond some of our habitual ways of being

and begin to practice living a little bit more consciously? That takes time, but we’re preparing

ourselves inwardly so that we’re in that when we’re in that position of actually beginning

to feel the feel our age, you know, and feel that we are entering a new chapter, then we

we prepared ourselves inwardly for living that way. And that’s much easier than all of

a sudden finding out that man got one day I’m really feeling old. Maybe I’m retired.

“Okay, God, I better go to a workshop.

I better read a book.

I got a book.”

Yeah, like you’re going to do that in a couple of days or a couple of weeks.

It takes time.

And that’s one of the reasons that I think, and I’ve had people tell me, Janine, they

said, “Ron, your book is called Conscious Living, Conscious Aging, but it seems applicable

to people at any point in life moving through any major life transition.”

And I think really it is, even though it’s focused on the transition into elderhood.

And so I think a lot of the ways of being and dealing with ourselves inwardly that I share in there are just as applicable to people in midlife or maybe even in their 20s and 30s as they are to people in their later chapters.

That’s a long answer to your question. Does it speak to what you were asking?

JANNINE: Absolutely, absolutely.

Because in my mind, of course,

I’m thinking you can start to have that awareness

and consciousness at any age,

but really watching it evolve.

And like you’re saying, staying true to yourself,

you know, versus following societal norms

and things of that nature,

I think that’s incredibly huge.

And I think if we’re introduced to this concept

at a younger age, because I’ll be honest,

I, like I said in the beginning of this,

I didn’t really think I was in control of my own world

until I got into my later 30s, early 40s.

I really just was flowing along,

not realizing that I could make choices,

I could design my life, let’s put it that way.

And what you’ve got here is a great way

to bring that awareness to folks that,

hey, I can choose whatever I want

and I can make this world a better place

by putting together my interests and my skills.

It’s great stuff.

I look forward to sharing this podcast with folks,

especially your book, folks conscious living,

conscious aging, gotta check that out.

Now Ron, you have some of their outlets

where you have been an interviewer with podcasts.

It sounds like you’ve got maybe an interview series

with the Saging International and the Shift Network.

Would you tell us a little bit about that

so that folks could maybe find it online,

listen in a little bit if they wanna gather

a little more information from you?

RON: Well, I think anybody who’s interested in their growth,

I’m sure has had some awareness of the shift network

because the amount of publicity

that my marketing may do has been incredible.

Now it was back in 1915, ’16 and ’17,

they became aware of my work and they asked me to host

and three consecutive years of what they call transforming aging summits.

I’ll tell you, it was an incredible experience because each year I had to round

up 18 to 20 interviewees.

And these are people across the whole spectrum who are making some kind of a

difference in how aging is viewed in our society.

Um,

and so I had to round them up and I had to then do one hour interviews with all

these people and then write up summaries and then each year this was available to people who

who subscribed. And I’ll tell you, I learned so much, interviewed about 60 different people.

And you know, I could tell you enjoy interviewing and I enjoy interviewing and

seeing them come alive talking about what they do brought me alive and the feedback I got is

It brought listeners alive and it was wonderful.

I don’t know the particulars of how to access it now, but I think if you contact the shift

network and do a little bit of searching, you could probably find information on whether

those interviews are still in their archive or something and available, you know, for,

I guess, for download and for sale.

And this is the thing I, turning points that I did with Saging International and Saging

International is a great organization that offers a lot of shorter workshops and webinars

of all different kinds.

And I think there’s the most influential of all the conscious aging organizations out

there.

So somebody might look up Saging International, S-A-G-E, hyphen, I-N-G International.

partner, Katia Peterson, and I had the opportunity to interview over the last

year, once a month, 12 people who are really viewed as leaders in helping to

inspire a commitment to transformation and listeners, especially related to

aging. People like Dr. Richard Rohr, Dr. Joan Borresenko, Richard Lider, people

like that that some of your listeners may be aware of.

But we didn’t interview them just about their work.

We interviewed them about the turning points

in their lives and we wanted to know,

what were the dark nights of the soul?

What were the challenging times?

What were those moments of epiphany and breakthrough

when you had clear vision?

Those synchronicities that supported you along the way

when you needed it.

It was incredible hearing those stories.

I think they’re greatly inspiring.

And so if somebody goes to Saging’s website,

www.saging, S-A-G-E-I-N-G.org,

and look around a little bit for turning points,

you can find how for,

I think it’s a really reasonable fee,

you can get access to that whole series,

and some of those are really great interviews.

JANNINE: So, I think folks will love that.

You know, we’re here,

I’m always about sharing information

and helping folks gather more info,

and especially on the topic of conscious aging

and aging, wow, that’s my mission here with the podcast

and just enjoy what you’re doing.

And gosh, I’m gonna have to grab a copy of your book

’cause I do want to do this.

RON: Here’s what it looks like.

Can you see this?

JANNINE: Oh, let’s show, yeah, let’s show it to everybody there.

There’s the book guys, “Conscious Living Conscious Aging.”

RON: That’s just aging, “Claiming the Gifts of Elbehood.”

JANNINE: It’s something just special to know that

when we retire, we’re, you know, get older into our older ages.

It’s not over.

And I think for a lot of people, that’s the biggest takeaway I want them to be

thinking about here.

You can reinvent yourself.

You can come up with some really cool things to do.

RON: Yes, you can.

And Ron is here to help you along the way.

So Ron, thank you so much for coming on.

I think what we should do for now is tell folks, you know, we’ve got the book.

They can find it at your website.

Give us your website and anywhere else they can find you as well at this point in time.

RON: Yeah. Well, they could find the book through any sources that you can find books at.

One I highly recommend you can and they could find it from my publisher beyond words

and they could find it from bookshop.org.

And not many people know bookshop.org. They have most of the books that Amazon has,

but what makes them I think unique and makes me love them is they give 10% of the purchase price

of every book sold to a local independent bookstore. I think it feels so good if you spend maybe a

couple extra dollars with them versus Amazon, but you know it’s going to support and keep your

little local bookstore going. We’ve got a website that many people feel is really useful to them,

full of information of all different types and interviews and all kinds of things and articles.

It’s a centerforconsciouseldering.com, centerforconsciouseldering.com

And my contact information is there if anybody would ever like to talk or be in touch about

anything they’ve heard today, Janine, I’d be delighted to talk to them.

JANNINE: Awesome. You guys heard it here. There’s no excuse not to have information at this point.

Ron, thank you again for coming on. I really appreciate it.

RON: Thank you, Jannine. I really enjoyed talking with you. I wish you and your good work well.

JANNINE: Thank you.

Turning points that I did with Saging International and Saging International is a great organization

that offers a lot of shorter workshops and webinars of all different kinds. I think they’re the most

influential of all the conscious aging organizations out there. So somebody might look up Saging International,

SAGE-ING International. But a partner, Katia Peterson, and I had the opportunity to interview

over the last year, once a month, 12 people who are really viewed as leaders in helping to

inspire a commitment to transformation and listeners, especially related to aging.

People like Dr. Richard Rohr, Dr. Joan Borresenko, Richard Lider, people like that, that some of

your listeners may be aware of. But we didn’t interview them just about their work. We interviewed

them about the turning points in their lives. And we wanted to know, you know, what were the

dark nights of the soul? What were the challenging times? What were those moments of epiphany and

breakthrough when you had clear vision? Those synchronicities that supported you along the way

when you needed it. It was incredible hearing those stories. I think they’re greatly inspiring.

And so if somebody goes to Saging’s website, www.saging@saging.org, and look around a little

bit for turning points, you can find how for what I think is a really reasonable fee, you can get

access to that whole series. And some of those are really great interviews.

JANNINE: So I think folks will love that. You know, we’re here. We’re I’m always about sharing information and helping folks gather more info and especially on the topic of conscious aging and aging. Well, that’s my mission here, you know, with the podcast and just enjoy what you’re doing. And gosh, I’m gonna have to grab a copy of your book because I do want to.

RON: Here’s what it looks like. Can you see?

JANNINE: Yeah, let’s show it to everybody there. There’s the book, guys, 

RON: Conscious Aging:

Claiming The Gifts of Elderhood.

JANNINE: It’s, it’s something just special to know that when we retire, we’re, you know, get older

into our older ages, it’s not over. And I think for a lot of people, that’s the biggest

takeaway I want them to be thinking about here. You can reinvent yourself. You can come up

with some really cool things to do.

RON: Yes, you can.

JANNINE: And Ron is here to help you along the way.

So Ron, thank you so much for coming on.

I think what we should do for now is tell folks,

you know, we’ve got the book, they can find it at your website,

like give us your website and anywhere else they can find you

as well at this point in time.

RON: Yeah, well, they can find the book through any sources

that you can find books at.

one I highly recommend you can and they could find it from my publisher beyond words and they

could find it from bookshop.org and not many people know bookshop.org they have most of the books that

Amazon has but what makes them I think unique and makes me love them is they give 10% of the

purchase price of every book sold to a local independent bookstore. I think it feels so good

if you spend maybe a couple extra dollars with them versus Amazon, but you know it’s going to support

and keep your little local bookstore going. We’ve got a website that many people feel is really

useful to them, full of information of all different types and interviews and all kinds of things

and articles. It’s a centerforconsciouseldering.com, centerforconsciouseldering.com.

And my contact information is there if anybody would ever like to talk or be in touch about

anything they’ve heard today, Janine, I’d be delighted to talk to them.

JANNINE: Awesome. You guys heard it here. There’s no excuse not to have information at this point.

Ron, thank you again for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Thank you, Janine. I really enjoyed talking with you. I wish you and your good work well.

JANNINE: Thank you.