Ep 624: Naturopathic Medicine, Acupuncture & Whole-Person Healing with Dr. Kerry Niebrzydowski & Dr. Sara Norris

What happens when you stop treating the diagnosis and start treating the person?

In this special back-to-back episode of the Health Fix Podcast, Dr. Jannine Krause sits down with two fellow naturopathic doctors to explore the power of personalized, integrative medicine.

First, Dr. Jannine talks with Dr. Kerry Niebrzydowski, a naturopathic doctor and licensed acupuncturist, about the unique ways naturopathic medicine and Chinese medicine can work together to support the body.

Then, in the second half of the episode, Dr. Jannine sits down with Dr. Sara Norris, ND, a naturopathic doctor specializing in women’s health, pediatrics, skin health, digestive health, and hormonal health.

Together, these conversations explore why there is no one-size-fits-all approach to health, how acupuncture can influence the body’s patterns of imbalance, the importance of nervous system regulation, and why collaboration between conventional and naturopathic providers can give patients more comprehensive care.

From Lyme disease, mold exposure, chronic pain, hormones, PCOS, menopause, allergies and immune health to sleep, nutrition, stress, movement, and nervous system regulation, this episode offers a fascinating look at what personalized naturopathic care can look like.

If you’ve ever wondered what naturopathic doctors actually do, how acupuncture fits into modern healthcare, or what it means to truly treat the whole person, you’ll want to listen to both conversations.

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Key Takeaways

Your diagnosis is not your entire health story.

Whether you’re dealing with chronic illness, hormone changes, Lyme disease, digestive problems, sleep issues, or simply trying to optimize your health, these conversations highlight one important principle:

Your care should be as individual as you are.

Dr. Kerry and Dr. Sara approach naturopathic medicine from different perspectives and areas of expertise, but both conversations come back to the importance of looking at the whole person rather than reducing someone to a symptom or diagnosis.

From acupuncture and Chinese medicine to functional testing, nutrition, lifestyle, nervous system support, and collaboration with conventional medicine, there are many pieces that can contribute to a more complete picture of health.

Sometimes the most important question isn’t “What should I take?”

It’s:

“What is my body trying to tell me?”

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Connect with Dr. Kerry Niebrzydowski

Dr. Kerry Niebrzydowski is a naturopathic doctor and licensed acupuncturist practicing at Radiant Natural Health Clinic, serving the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and Northern Wisconsin. Her practice includes naturopathic medicine, acupuncture, and Chinese herbalism, with a focus on conditions including chronic pain, Lyme disease, mycotoxicity, digestive concerns, neurological conditions, allergies, hormones, menopause, and more.

🌐 Radiant Natural Health Clinic

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Connect with Dr. Sara Norris, ND

Dr. Sara Norris is a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine specializing in women’s health, pediatrics, skin health, digestive health, and hormonal health, including endometriosis, PCOS, fertility, and menopause. She practices comprehensive integrative and functional medicine at Wagner Integrative Health. 

🌐 Dr. Sara Norris, ND — Wagner Integrative Health

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Connect with Dr. Jannine Krause

Check out Dr. Krause’s Website for more resources and subscribe for more conversations on functional medicine, longevity, brain health, hormones, nutrition, and natural strategies to optimize your health.

Be sure to Like, Subscribe, and Share this episode with someone who wants to protect their brain and age with vitality.

Check out the Wisconsin Naturopathic Doctor’s Association – WNDA

https://wisconsin-nd.org

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Podcast Transcript

Timestamps

00:00 — Welcome
07:25 — Dr. Kerry: Acupuncture & Natural Medicine
12:12 — Blending Chinese Medicine and Naturopathy
19:14 — Integrative Care and Community Referrals
23:25 — Northwoods Health, Lyme, and Herbal Care
25:34 — Immune Support and Allergy Tips
29:34 — Beadwork, Breathing, and Martial Arts
34:02 — Dr. Sara: From Finance to Naturopathic Medicine
37:23 — Inside an Integrative Health Clinic
43:10 — Root-Cause Care for Adults and Kids
50:25 — Sleep, Weight, and Blood Sugar
57:22 — Vitamin D, Sunlight, and Daily Health Habits
60:49 — Dr. Sara’s Foundational Health Advice

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Jannine Krause (00:00.878)
Hey health junkies, welcome to another episode of the Health Fix Podcast. I have a fellow naturopath and acupuncturist, a duli as we call ourselves here with me, Dr. Kerry Nipedrowski. Welcome to the Health Fix Podcast.

Thanks for having me. So this is fun because I’m doing a series here of us together just talking about what us crazy naturopaths do, but also acupuncture. Because I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, but in Wisconsin, where both of us are, sometimes there’s a little thought like acupuncture, you do what? What kind of stuff? Sure. Yeah. So what’s the craziest, craziest thing someone said to you about acupuncture ever? I’m super curious.

Well, I’ll have crazy experiences where I’m treating someone for like pain here and I do a point on their ankle and they’re like, my pain is gone. Like that routinely happens every day.

And I think a lot of people don’t realize that we are we may put needles in different places and then things will change. Or or someone will be like, I feel like there’s ants crawling on me. What are you doing? Right, right, right. Because everything is connected. Yes. Acupuncture is something interesting. Now of course you’re also a naturopath. And I love asking the story because I t often will tell people my crazy story of I want to be a personal boarder that didn’t work out. So I became an acupuncturist and naturopath. So what what’s your story? How did you end up here?

Well, so I got a math degree, at Michigan State University and then I did a bunch of interviews and all of them failed miserably. Like it I just didn’t fit. So I I went out to the West Coast to visit some friends and I fell in love with Portland as a city. Like it just felt right for me to be there. And I was just waiting for

Jannine Krause (01:41.463)
I was just waiting for the next step, waiting for it to feel right. And a friend of mine came into town and was visiting and and then went to N U and to for to like interview the school and I walked in and I instantly, intuitively knew that that’s what I wanted to do. It was like I was waiting for God to give me that push, you know? And then I got it and then I knew. And so and I knew from the beginning that I wanted to be a dual degree doc and do Chinese medicine and naturopathy at the same time.

And I was I was grateful that the program was as long as it was, that it was a six year program and because I had to grow in terms of my way to be able to connect with people and to I knew I had to grow as a soul to be able to do the medicine that I wanted to do. So I was grateful that it took that long and was that rigorous and

Six years is a big deal. I I ended up seven because I was like, I can’t handle all this, so I give you props for doing six years. I was like my parents were probably thinking I was gonna be a lifer in school, which I mean I would have stayed in school like forever. Yeah, it is wonderful. Naturopathy school is great. I mean you’re surrounded by all these loving people who are super passionate about living life fully and celebrating and being well and

You know? It’s like you just reach out as a cool person. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It’s like it’s a good vibe. And it it’s you know, you also have friends that you make for life. And then there’s also like you just it’s a bubble a little bit because when you get out, you’re like, not everybody thinks about like all the herbs and like what’s growing around me and how I can use it for medicine. Right, right. So of course we’re up here in the Northwoods in Wisconsin and Carrie’s like just over the border from or just down south of the border from Michigan, and we’ve got like all kinds of trees up here. What’s

What’s your favorite thing that you like to just harvest from the outdoors up here that you can use for medicine? Is there anything fun that you like that’s up here? Well, I love actually making hypericum oil. Mmm. Because so like I treat a lot of pain all day, every day, right? And I think it’s amazing that I have Saint John’s Wort like growing naturally all the way around the clinic. That’s okay. And so I’ve harvested here and made an oil that I’ve given people for pain.

Jannine Krause (03:58.041)
That’s pretty cool. Yeah. And and there is wild strawberry that grows in the in the yard here. And I think that that’s pretty special too. Uh-huh. Because I have a special connection to wild strawberry. Wild strawberries are the sweetest. They’re tiny. Yeah. It’s so cool.

Have you guys ever had them? I hope you have. If you haven’t, you should go find some because they are most delicious. I think they’re way better than anything you could possibly Well, I get out of the store. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, you’re an acupuncturist, you’re a naturopath. What’s what’s your favorite jam when you like get in the clinic and you’re like, okay, do you do you tend to like drive people towards doing a little bit of the Chinese medicine and the naturopathy? Do you feel like you can’t like separate Or do you feel like your jam is to like start someone this way and then follow up with acupuncture? Like what’s your favorite style to practice?

So I love to meet people where they’re at. I do Chinese medicine with everybody, even my little ones, like little, little ones, like infants that come to see me for constipation or for eczema or something. I’ll do these little Japanese acupuncture stickers called Somacet. They’re really awesome. And so I do I do I do Chinese medicine with everybody because I I really find that people get better quicker when I work with their bodies. But that’s also just my medicine.

I really am very tactile. I d I don’t do a lot on

On with telemedicine, because it’s just I I I learn a lot by working on people, so that’s just how it works for me. But then every person I see, I’m always my goal is always just to match where they’re at. And so like I just take everything I’ve learned and all the continuing education I’ve done of like, we should do an organic acid test, or we need to do hormonal panels because we need to know what’s happening with your PCOS, like what is happening with all these levels, and so I really just blend everything that I’ve ever learned and I

Jannine Krause (05:50.703)
I’ve ca I’m hungry to always learn more and talk to other docs when things get confusing because people have very complex medical histories and complex issues and I don’t pretend that I know everything, right? And so like like I just was talking with a lab yesterday about you know a patient’s results that just didn’t, you know, didn’t really match up with everything I knew and and so then I learn and grow and

Tailor the medicine specifically for a person. Because that’s what’s so amazing about naturopathy, right? Like you experience this every day. Like no three cases of PCOS are the same. It’s true. It’s true. You know what I mean? And they need a different medicine and they need different approaches and they need different lifestyle modifications because we’re all going through life as like soul and body in our own way.

So important to recognize that because right now we’re in a state where, you know, we can see so many people looking at AI for answers. yeah. And and then it’s just algorithmical. You know, you do berberine, you do inocital, you know, you do, you know, we’re talking about PCOS, so those are the ones that come up and slowly. Most of the folks who listen are in some kind of hormone situation. Right. So so then, but like maybe that’s not appropriate for a person. True. True. Yeah.

Yeah, and maybe, you know, like energetic wise, and this is why I absolutely adore Chinese medicine because it looks at the foundation of the imbalance. I don’t know if you f feel that way. I mean I’m guessing so. Yep, yep. You see it and you’re like, yeah, they totally have this imbalance if we work on the imbalance, not just the like algorithmic either of the things. Right. And that’s where I tend to just absolutely adore having the two medicines together. Right. And and also I feel with Chinese medicine, you don’t have to give as many people as much stuff.

Because you’re teaching their bodies how to do it. You know, like that’s the whole thing about doing acupuncture is like you introduce a pattern of harmony when there’s been a pattern of disharmony and the body goes like, I can do it this way, I had no idea.

Jannine Krause (07:57.039)
It’s so cool. And it’s like I think it’s really great to like tell people like we’re not doing anything like to your body. We’re giving it messages. Like we’re not putting energy in. I think that’s a big thing that a lot of people ask me a lot is like what are you doing to my body? Nothing. Just give me it signals. Yes. Putting it.

That are profound and complex and we don’t understand the science behind all of it, but we know that there’s three thousand years of empirical evidence. You know, like I have people who come to see me and they’re like, Well, I don’t know if this is gonna work. And I’m like, This this is a medical procedure. This either works or doesn’t, just like every other medical procedure. And until we do it, we don’t really know if it’s gonna work for you. It’s true. Right? It’s true. And so

Yeah. And and I feel like the the the science of understanding how acupuncture is works is like we’re in the infancy stages. Yeah. Yeah. I still don’t think that we’ve got it all nailed down. Yeah. But definitely the energetic component and and I talk about this a lot on the podcast is we talk about how everyone’s got a vibration. And and how the vibration, you know, can be can be changed with herbs. I mean Western or Chinese and

I don’t know, I I’d love to hear like do you have a case you can pull out of somewhere if you think about someone that maybe y they came in one way and gave them a set of either Chinese or or Western style herbs and then boom completely different change if you want to go on PCOS train here or anywhere else? Well

Yeah, I mean, I was thinking I’m thinking about somebody who I just saw yesterday who is, you know, she’s a veteran. She’s she just retired from the military. She’s like in her mid twenties and or early twenties actually. So she’s fairly young. But that whole situation of she was living in a in a mold infested house in Europe, right? So we have mycotoxicity part of it. And then the military and military life was really hard on her, just her nerve nervous.

Jannine Krause (09:54.761)
system so she was crazy strung out and anxious when we started, right? And her all of her hormonal imbalance. And so like between doing things to modulate her cortisol and then doing a couple of treatments that actually just settle her spirit with acupuncture, she’s recalibrating. You know what I mean? She’s like changing the way that she’s walking through the world. Where like not everything is just triggering her nervous system, right? Because that’s what happens with the mycotoxicity too is it makes you like really

you know, on edge for a lot of people because it’s a neurotoxin. So like clearing that out of her as well as like the whole military life. Clearing the military life.

Lots of energy to be cleared in that department. Yes. And some of that, you know, you can just you c you can do that in one treatment actually. Like you can you can shift, like if somebody has a trauma that they’re really centered around and responding in life ’cause it’s like a core agent of disharmony.

You know, we can go in there gently with love and kind of nudge it and then it can actually just leave. That’s profound when that happens. I always feel like God walks in the room and does it and that happens. Yeah. Because it’s like deep, profound healing that happens in dis instantaneously and you’re like, wow, this actually happens. Like and we see miracles that happen in medicine all the time. It’s true. But in Western medicine, we don’t talk about them. Yeah. But it’s like real and happening regularly.

Mm-hmm. Even in a Western medical context. But we don’t we don’t you know, somebody just had a good outcome.

Jannine Krause (11:36.301)
And so this is why we’re here. And this is why we’re here to help share that there are other ways to look at things. There are, you know, looking at naturopathy in terms of an alternative way, but also in in in integrated and and that’s the thing that, you know, I think we all kind of wanna see eventually is us being able to work with the medical community side by side versus being alternative. Right. I would like it to be, you know, all together because there are so many different ways and that’s kind of why I wanted to to do this series too, is to to

talk about different ways that we are integrating at at the moment. And so you were saying you have other providers that you work with and chiropractor. yeah. Go going today. So yes, yes. So chiropractors like who are who are some of your other like let’s say go to people in the community that you do work with that are out of our absolute circle.

I I I work with most of the the the providers in my community. You know, what from specialists that are, you know, our OBGYNs routinely have very good relationships with the the primary care doctors all in my community. We have a really great relationship because they know that like if I’m sending them there, it’s because they need a pharmaceutical management that I can’t do. Hopefully at some point I’ll be able to do that pharmaceutical management. but but it there’s a there there they need a workup that’s beyond

you know what I I can do. And so there’s there’s active referral between the conventional medical community and my practice. You know, I’ve been in practice for 15 years and when I first started my practice, that was not the case. You know, it was like I would in the beginning of my practice, I would write letters to the physicians of like, okay, I saw your patient and I initiated like, let’s say they have GERD and I was like, I gave them slippery elm bark. And you know, like if I was worried about celiacs, I would be like, hey, we we may want to do some

testing because at that point I didn’t do phlebotomy in my practice either when I first started. Do you know what I mean? So assessment-wise I would refer back to primary care and that established me in my small community a connection and also safety and efficacy for people because sometimes people just need a pharmaceutical andor they need a conventional management that either is gonna cost so much if I refer where if their primary care refers it and it’s in their insurance plan that they can

Jannine Krause (13:57.247)
can get it and not have it be expensive like and so I refer broadly there I refer for endoscopies a lot and colonoscopies and mammograms and things that because I do get patients who are like, you know Carrie, I don’t want to see conventional doctor. I won’t do like I you it’s either I’m gonna see you or I’m gonna see no one.

So then it’s like then I’m careful and but in terms of like doing routine blood work and talking to them about these primary care standards because they’re there for a reason. Yeah. And so so but then I also refer to all the massage therapists and the people who do like I have s great people in my community that do like

like pelvic floor, you know, massage and work and that can be really, really important for for women. And there’s a there’s a man who needs a pelvic floor therapy that I take care of. And so he actually has to go to Green Bay. He’s gotta drive a hundred miles for that because there’s not somebody in our community that does that.

So but yeah, so I’m I’m you know and then there’s an there’s a couple acupuncturists in my community. one woman came here and was working with me, like shadowing and stuff when she was going through school and she’s so delightful. I’m so glad she’s here. I wanna get on her schedule. There’s another guy who like does IV therapy who’s an acupuncturist and he’s brilliant and I’ve seen him, so

So we’re together. Yeah. Cause like ’cause people get better in a team. I’m sure you know this as well. hundred percent. A hundred percent. And that’s something I really wanna highlight that, you know, the team care approaches what we are trained to do is what we want to do. And it’s it’s a big deal. And like Niagara, how many people are in Niagara? Like what’s the population here? A couple of thousand. But we’re what we’re we’re in a community of like thirty thousand between like Kingsford and Iron Mountain and Norway and and and I

Jannine Krause (15:48.633)
people from all that area come and see me. You know. Gotcha. Now, of course, being up in the Northwoods as we call it here, north of Green Bay, for those of you trying to figure out where the heck where the heck are you? We’re on the we’re on the border of Michigan in Wisconsin right here. Now one of the big things that we end up dealing with is is folks will come in with some serious stuff that they haven’t dealt with in a long time because there’s a little bit of a attitude in the Northwoods that some people wanna, you know, stay hidden up here. And some things go not taken care of for a while.

Yeah so let’s talk about some of the issues particularly pertaining to up here and some of the things that you’ll end up seeing that so so Lyme’s disease. Mm-hmm. We see a lot of Lyme disease up here. And like when I started my practice, right, like the first year of my practice, I was like, crap, I gotta get good at Lyme’s disease and I can’t do antibiotics. Yeah.

So so I’ve gotten I’ve gotten really some really great sea legs and then also knowing when to prefer, you know what I mean? And and when when I f when I’m not feeling comfortable, when people aren’t getting better, like who would who do I send people to? but I’ve I’ve been I treat Lyme’s disease every single day because what happens is is that for some people is they’ll have the antibiotics maybe, but then they’re not better.

So then what do you do? You know, and sometimes docs will just do more antibiotics, but sometimes that doesn’t work either. You know, so then that’s where these treatments of cat’s claw and AL complex and acupuncture and you know Japanese knotweed and cryptoleptis and you know like all this whole thing, arsenal of Limes specialty friends that are in the botanical realms. You know, I just love that. You know, my botanical friends. We have such a good tool.

box like a huge one and that’s something that drew me to naturopathic medicine it was like whoa wait I have like 800 things I could do for this versus two or something of that nature.

Jannine Krause (17:44.011)
So let’s talk a little bit about let’s give some value in terms of certain things folks could maybe take away. maybe let’s throw out like what’s your favorite like immune booster to to have like during the cold and flu season and then like what’s your favorite immune regulator for allergy season? let’s let’s give folks some fun stuff that they think might go with here. So while elderberry is like kick butt in terms of prevention.

Mm-hmm. Right. So like doing elderberry every day, like with my own family and my kids. Like I was like, Okay, we are just getting too many like, you know, you you start the preschool and then the school and then it’s just like woo woo woo. It’s like one person’s

sick all the time, right? When we started elderberry, that cut way down. Nice. Way, way, way, way down. So we do like an elderberry elixir every day in my fi my house and it works very, very well. And then vitamin D, of course. You know, like ’cause we’re so far north, vitamin D is low for everybody. So, those are probably my two like just like immune

building. But then we can’t we always have to remember too, like we have to do the things like in our lifestyle, right? We gotta laugh, we gotta have fun, we gotta dance, we gotta you know what I mean, we gotta be in our community. All those are immune modulating

things like help us fight infection is is being you know doing things that nourish us right absolutely because like nourishment is is more than just the food right it’s like all the things around us but then also like you know up here in the north like Janine’s not been here forever you know so like so so I’m learning there’s this is the world of the fried cheese curd and and like Doritos and like like

Jannine Krause (19:31.183)
ultra processed foods is like this is like I mean like I mean Hawaiian punch, you know what I mean? Like this is this world. Do you know what I mean? Like everybody eats all these like crazy ultra processed foods and they’re really terrible for us and immune.

like tanking. And so it’s I and what I generally do with folks is like bring in healthy and that pushes out the unhealthy. You know? and then I’m not a purist either. I mean occasionally I’ll eat a Dorito. I mean they’re delicious, right? I mean I’m excited that there’s Doritos that don’t have dyes anymore.

I now I feel less guilty when my kids really want to eat them. But like so, and then then in terms of like allergy wise is dehissed by orthomolecular. Hands down the boat. Hands down.

Yeah. I used to do I used to do like a quercetin and bromolane combination. I mean like for a decade, like at least, right? And then when I started to do Dhist, which includes vitamin C and nettles, significant more effica efficacy. Yeah. Yeah. Like and I found that with D hist, like people can take it kind of

As needed. Like you could take it that day and have an effect like within an hour, which is profound. That’s not often in natural medicine. In natural medicine, sometimes things you had to take for four to six weeks before they actually really help. But Dhist can work really well. And then there’s those combination homeopathics that I love. Airborne alar sode.

Jannine Krause (21:06.87)
You know, that’s really great. You’re like dying and eyes are watering and you’re all like, I’m gonna think Jake Airborne Alice are like your eyes better. I’m all bright. my goodness. Well there’s a lot of stuff. I mean, we could be here for hours telling you on all the fun things, but I chose those two those two just because a lot of people ask me those two in general and yeah, I will make sure we put those those little tips in the podcast notes at dr jcross and d dot com. But we’ll also have them below this in

If you’re watching on YouTube. Now, of course, you mentioned things that bring you joy. Yes. And things that chill. And you’ve always had the most fabulous and interesting earrings. And so I told her I was gonna have to ask her about these a little bit. So tell us more about your earrings because you you have some on today that are also fabulous. And she likes long ones, big ones. I mean, every time I see you, there’s something different. Yeah. So it’s it’s something that I do most days is I do traditional Anishna Baby B work.

because I am part n of Jibway. So I I do beadwork to just really subtle

My nervous system at the end of the day. It’s very slow. It’s very meditative. I think a lot of people who knit find the same kind of rhythms or you know, the the there’s this new thing out, the diamond art. Have you heard about this? This is that this is like bedazzling kind of. But it’s like you do big elaborate pictures. It’s the s it’s the same it’s the same thing where it’s like it’s slow, it requires attention, it’s soft, it’s very

It’s it’s very meditative. Nice. Yeah. Nice. And so if you could tell folks one thing, you know, to to take with them in terms of something for chill. Sounds like something meditative. Yes. And something else that they could do no matter what that’s gonna no doubt help their health, what would you tell Breathe. Breathe. Breathe. And being able to regulate your breath.

Jannine Krause (23:13.686)
you can totally change your state, right? So like let’s say you have something really scary happen. If you n if you know how to regulate your breathing, you can actually just be centered and focused, right? Versus like, got in a fight You know? ‘Cause that’s gonna get the nervous system going and then it’s just Yep. Yeah. So like and and I taught yoga for about fifteen years. I study Mount now more martial arts, which is really fun. Tornado kicks are

really fun. I we may have to get her to do a little bit of that for you. Where do you what what what style of martial arts are you going to I I I study with a a traditional dojo at my my sensei is is Malaysian and so we do we do a lot of mixed martial arts. So I do things that are taekwondo and I do things that are judo and I do a kido and he teaches us all his di these different skill sets and we throw each other around and we

work out really hard and we do these really strong kicks and you go home like a wet noodle.

It’s really fun. Tornado kicks. There is something to martial arts though. Just like Tai Chi, Qigong, you know, all of that in the sound. It’s very centering. Even though we’re talking tornado kicks and throwing people around, I mean, it still has like its place. And that’s one of the things I love to talk to folks about is the breathing that comes with the practice of the martial arts and how all of those help the the channels and start keeping circulation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I absolutely love that.

And it’s like cross training. Do you know what I mean? Like you’re you’re working basically every muscle group. my gosh. Yeah, everyone needs to think about that. in terms of things. And yeah, you know. I’m I’m glad Tai Chi walking is kind of a thing now. I kinda find it fun, but I’m also like, mm, what else could we do to like amplify the result for folks? So

Jannine Krause (25:08.108)
Yes. You may see her doing tornado kicks somewhere in the near future. And we’re gonna have to figure it out. It’s something fun. Dr. Carrie, thank you so much for sitting down with me and sharing a little bit of a It’s so beautiful that you’re here and came to be at my practice. Yeah. It’s fun. It’s fun. All right, guys. So I’m gonna put some details on Dr. Carrie in our podcast notes, but I’m gonna let her tell you where she you can find her online and in person here in Niagara, Wisconsin. Yeah. So what’s your website? So my website is

Radiant Natural Health Clinic and I I went to NUNM which is and do did a dual degree and got a doctorate in naturopathic medicine and a master’s in Chinese medicine and then I stayed on and did a year residency and primary care at NUNM.

And then I’ve been in private practice here for sixteen, seventeen years. this is my hometown. I practice in my hometown and I just I have a very general practice. I see people of all ages and of all aliens and I just love being with people.

So good. So good. That’s what that’s what I love to hear. Folks that still love being with people after that many years of being in practice. yeah. It’s huge. It’s huge. Well, thanks again for coming on. And guys, we’ll have details here in the podcast notes. And if you’re watching on YouTube, it’ll be right down below. You guys have a great day. Whatever you’re doing. I’ll